Giving Away Dive Instructor Certifications.

[drbill]

I have encountered a few instructors who probably shouldn't even be certified as BOW. Of course these are the small minority among the many good instructors.

One who was to replace me on a cruise ship was so incredibly incompetent she couldn't put on the strap to her own personal mask, didn't know to deflate the BCD before descending, was so buoyancy-challenged she crashed into a large table coral fracturing it into pieces that fell over the wall's edge into the abyss. It astounded me that she ever got certified period.

 

[oceancrest67]

Many of us have viewed these kinds of popular debates before on this forum. Many of us can point out the number of "instructors" that ought to be doing something else for a living besides misinforming new divers and setting a bad example. I can finger many a fat, lazy instructor, or some old lady newbie instructor reading out of the book.

Bouyancy control anyone!!!

I am a Padi DM and I have been diving for about 11 years. When I first started, my old fashioned instructor made me work to get my OW, AOW and Rescue. It took time getting my DM. During my 11 years I dived in all kinds of conditions, but mostly cold water Atlantic wrecks and...and yes, the clear water tropics.

In the end, I decided against teaching and going for my Instructor rating. I decided to go the more technical route. I often get asked to help DM classes...but I just can't bring myself to be the underling of an instructor I don't respect as a diver. There are some instructors I will help and then there are others I simply disrespect as divers.

Regarding PADI marketing itself and lowering its standards...it is there as with any other agency. Agencies are all in the market to make money hand in hand with vendors, tourism, and the like. I do not like the idea of mass marketing and lowering the age for new divers...I do not like the idea of racing someone through their certifications to become an instructor. Can you believe the amount of marketing bs in some of the Padi manuals?

I can't count the number of times I have seen cattle boat tourist divers newly certified fumbling up the reefs and plonking tanks all over the deck of a dive boat.

I can't count the number of times I have seen ego bloated instructors (newly certified) with poor dive skills...poor bouyancy being a major skill area lacking in effort and control.

My recommendation...search long and hard for a good instructor.

I know, I know I am ranting.

Just my 02.

 

[pt40fathoms]

Sorry to take this a bit off topic. I'm from the same province (and city - and dive the same lake ), my mother in-law, sister, and a few of my friends are all school teachers for various grades and immersions, all of them are required in Manitoba to hold a University degree for teaching.

Otherwise, I do agree with your statements completely, including the part about everyone starting from the same place.

How was Cat's Bum (dang censorship) today? I managed to slip out of the city for a few dives down at Westhawk this morning with some of the students that were certifying this weekend.

Don't mean to hyjack this thread, but in answer to your first paragraph, what I wrote was that they "learn to teach right out of high school". They aren't teachers yet, just learning to become teachers. I can see the confusion in interpretation of the sentence though, I should have used a bold text around the word "learn".

As for Cats*** (sneeky way of avoiding the censors eh), it was hot and busy. I had 9 Rescue students this weekend, they all ended up exhausted with smiles on their faces.

 

[Canadian_Diver]

Don't mean to hyjack this thread, but in answer to your first paragraph, what I wrote was that they "learn to teach right out of high school". They aren't teachers yet, just learning to become teachers. I can see the confusion in interpretation of the sentence though, I should have used a bold text around the word "learn".

As for Cats*** (sneeky way of avoiding the censors eh), it was hot and busy. I had 9 Rescue students this weekend, they all ended up exhausted with smiles on their faces.

AH! Ok, I see what you were trying to get at now.... I agree then.

I'm sending you a PM to carry on our discussion in PM so as we don't hijack the thread any further.

 

[friscuba]

Welcome to PADI.

Dude.... Look at NAUI. 50 logged dives required for ITC

http://naui.com/index-side.html

This isn't meant to be critical of NAUI, but anyone can look up the requirements and see that PADI matches or requires more than other major agencies. I think most are at 100 dives to become an instructor these days, I couldn't find if NAUI had more than the 50 or not required by completion of the Instructor process.

All instructors have to start somewhere. There is a lot more involved in being a good instructor than having "X" number of dives. Some people have it from the getgo.

later,

 

[Scot M]

But friscuba, don't you know that all the cool divers only slag off PADI?

 

[gjmmotors]

By no means is this a bash against NAUI.
I had never looked at the requirements to become a NAUI instructor until now, and now that I have I am suprised. All these PADI bashers are saying that the certifications are just given away. In order to get our card we must be evaluated by a person that was not involved in our training, an outside examiner(PADI IE).
From the NAUI website they make no mention of outside evaluators coming in, only that a CD needs to do the final step. If you did the ITC with a NAUI CD the same person that teaches you can certify you.
I dont know, maybe NAUI IT's are so good that they train instructors so well that an outside 'audit' is not needed. Atleast with PADI, you know that each and every instructor was evaluated by one or more people directly from PADI headquarters. And the IE examiners could care less if someone passed the exam, they have nothing invested in the candidate.

Just an observation.
-gm

Dude.... Look at NAUI. 50 logged dives required for ITC

http://naui.com/index-side.html

This isn't meant to be critical of NAUI, but anyone can look up the requirements and see that PADI matches or requires more than other major agencies. I think most are at 100 dives to become an instructor these days, I couldn't find if NAUI had more than the 50 or not required by completion of the Instructor process.

All instructors have to start somewhere. There is a lot more involved in being a good instructor than having "X" number of dives. Some people have it from the getgo.

later,

 

[RonFrank]

IMO it belongs squarely on the LDS's.

If someone has a specific complaint about the requirements from the various agencies, post it, or better yet, contact the agency. However from what I've read most agencies have reasonable requirements that one must attain to become an instructor.

Will obtaining the requirements make one a good instructor? IMO, no. I've met people with PHD's that I would not put in charge of my dog, so passing tests and training is not going to guaranty a good instructor.

Ask the question, who allows poor instructors to teach. Answer, the LDS. If one is granted instructor status within an agency, they still must work with the LDS (there are a few exceptions). It is the job of the LDS to monitor and ensure that instructors are performing at adequate levels, and there is little that PADI or any other agency can do to ensure that ALL instructors are performing their job well.

PADI is the biggest target for one simple reason, they are the largest certification agency. However they must rely on the LDS to ensure that their standards are met. o People come in all flavors, and there are certainly those out there who maybe good divers, but poor instructors, or versa visa.

Our LDS does do instructor evaluations for every class I have done. To date, I've worked with three instructors, and about half a dozen DM's/AI's. So far the AI's and Instructors have all been very good. I have seen a couple DM's that needed work, but they were canidate DM's I believe as they were in training.

All the instructors I've taken classes with had well over 1,000 dives, and each had experience in a very wide variety of conditions from exoctic locations to local mud holes, to ice diving with drysuits. So far I've been impressed with those who have been given the instructor status, but then again, maybe our LDS has higher standards .

 

[theskull]

Those whom choose to become dive instructors sacrifice valuable fun-diving time to instead make incredibly easy dives while drilling students on extremely simple skills. To do so requires only adequate skill on their part and a willingness to work for peanuts. An OW class is only designed to teach people how to make simple dives without killing themselves. When a student is fortunate enough to get an instructor who is also a very good diver, and the student masters the required skills quickly enough to benefit from the additional abilities the instructor can demonstrate, he is definitely in bonus territory.

The real learning takes place after one is certified, and only if he proceeds to dive fairly regularly with some decent divers.

The instructor courses run by the major agencies are actually quite thorough and usually both expensive and time-consuming. If you believe otherwise, keep in mind that the instructor course is NOT designed to make the instructor an excellent diver! It is designed to make them a role model of the BASIC skills, and an instructor who can teach these basic skills without hurting anyone or bringing on liability in a legal sense.

theskull

 

[97fxdwg]

I agree.

I see this type of segregation etc on other types of forums, and it isn't pretty. I usually stop viewing those messages boards now.

Besides, we're all divers. Whether you're certified under PADI, SSI, YMCA, NAUI, or whatever, we all have to meet the same minimum requirements for certification as outlined by the WRSTC.

Don't forget NASDS. Am I the ONLY one here with that certiification?