the point that I think we need to stay on in this thread is what
@PfcAJ said and
@rddvet and I have alluded to. The head of the IUCRR does not allow the recovery divers to talk and forbids them from publishing anything about certain recoveries if it doesn't fit the narrative. One of the Ginnie deaths a few years ago was a guy that was in my intro to cave course with me. The IUCRR recovered his body, but there is no report on their website, nothing that says Craig died, heaven forbid where or why because the recovery team was muzzled. Same with a slew of others. That's the point I'd like to understand, why does Ken not want anyone talking about these things so we can actually learn from them?