Ginnie 3-18-2012

[ianr33]

Yea, ow diver gets pulled out of cave. Must be a medical.

Only if he was using a rebreather.

 

[Jax]

Yea, ow diver gets pulled out of cave. Must be a medical.

Only if he was using a rebreather.

Aw, c'mon guys, just trying to keep y'all honest!


After all, anything is possible. There is so much backlash when an OW diver dies in a cave.

 

[PfcAJ]

I think that once you actually get some cave training, your thoughts will shift a little.

 

[Jax]

I think that once you actually get some cave training, your thoughts will shift a little.

It's funny, AJ, but I don't think so. I have had a lot of training in investigations, particularly accident investigations (in the military), and find that one must never rule anything out.

I've poured over the forums, read reports. I understand, this probably was an OW diver lost in the cave.

I also understand there tends to be backlash. The cave community gets angry and frustrated at these places that encourage OW to enter a cave. Maybe we will learn more, maybe not.

However, the excitement of being in the foreign environment that is a cave could start a weak heart beating extremely fast . . . .

Of course, you guys are probably and completely right.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

Jax,

What the guys are trying to say is that going into a cave without training and equipment is gambling with the Grim Reaper. Sometimes you will get lucky. Sometimes you will not. When it goes wrong, it doesn't matter whether it was the silt, poor equipment or a whacky heart that got you. You just plain and simple should not have been in the cave.

 

[JamesK]

There is so much backlash when an OW diver dies in a cave.

Just as it should be. If you are not trained up to the level required for that dive, stay the hell out. Pretty simple to me.

 

[Jax]

Jax,

What the guys are trying to say is that going into a cave without training and equipment is gambling with the Grim Reaper. Sometimes you will get lucky. Sometimes you will not. When it goes wrong, it doesn't matter whether it was the silt, poor equipment or a whacky heart that got you. You just plain and simple should not have been in the cave.

I agree. The bottom line on this one is that the diver was far beyond their training and experience.

Could we not also add that activities that encourage OW students to go into caverns without training might want to take a hard look at their practices?

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

I agree. The bottom line on this one is that the diver was far beyond their training and experience.

One of my previous comments on the board was that there are some things you learn only from training and some things you learn only from experience. No amount of open water experience will ever prepare you for a cave environment. Cave training and cave experience will prepare you for the cave environment.

Could we not also add that activities that encourage OW students to go into caverns without training might want to take a hard look at their practices?

At some point you need to be responsible for your own diving choices and risk assesment. If you don't have the discipline to stay out of the cave, then don't tempt yourself with a dive in cave country. You shouldn't need a tour operator to tell you that untrained people die in caves.

 

[TSandM]

I haven't done that much diving in Florida, but each time I have been at Ginnie, it has flummoxed me as to why anyone uses that place for OW training. The river run itself is extremely shallow, so in order to get enough depth to do any "diving", the instructors seem to take the students down the vertical part of the Ear, and into the round basin of the Eye. Going into the cave from the Eye is clearly a major change, but to go from the chimney at the Ear into the cave is a very subtle change. I could see a student, having been there before and done the chimney, ending up in the cave almost inadvertently, and looking around and thinking, "Hey, this is COOL!"

I think there have to be better places to train OW students than Ginnie.

 

[Adobo]

I haven't done that much diving in Florida, but each time I have been at Ginnie, it has flummoxed me as to why anyone uses that place for OW training. The river run itself is extremely shallow, so in order to get enough depth to do any "diving", the instructors seem to take the students down the vertical part of the Ear, and into the round basin of the Eye. Going into the cave from the Eye is clearly a major change, but to go from the chimney at the Ear into the cave is a very subtle change. I could see a student, having been there before and done the chimney, ending up in the cave almost inadvertently, and looking around and thinking, "Hey, this is COOL!"

I think there have to be better places to train OW students than Ginnie.

I dunno what its like trying to enter through the ear with a single tank and wetsuit but trying to enter in doubles and a drysuit takes some doing. Meaning, you don't just meander into the overhead area inadvertently. You gotta dump a bunch of gas from your BC and even then still pull yourself into the cave. And once you are into the cave, you have to be in one of the few lull areas to not get spit back out by the flow. At least, that's what it seemed like to me.