General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Kingpatzer]

A more general question: what is the typical recover success rate in caves when accidents like this happen? It's been stated that untrained divers have a tendency to panic and go off in all kinds of weird directions and doing pretty much everything wrong. That certainly suggest the possibility of many ending up not recoverable.

Is the cave community pretty successful in recoveries, or is it far more hit and miss? In a generic case, should the family be led to expect a recovery or led to expect that it is not likely?

 

[diverdoug1]

Most are recovered.

 

[Cleavitt]

A more general question: what is the typical recover success rate in caves when accidents like this happen? ...

Almost all are recovered. This is NOT a typical situation are far as the recovery effort goes. I only know of a few other cases where a recovery was not feasible or possible. Again, this isn't a typical recovery due to the location in the cave.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Tim thanks. I was going off information I was told a while back from both ICURR and law enforcement officials. Main reason was tampering with evidence is a crime. Not sure who's right but you do make a valid point. I would snoop around but I have no intentions of becoming an ICURR person.

There is room for common sense...
For example, if I were to run across a body/victim in a cave that I wasn't expecting and couldn't absolutely determine that it's dead, I for one will make every effort short of becoming a casualty myself to get the victim out, fast. If, on the other hand, it's definitely a body - due to obvious deterioration or prior knowledge (like in this case), then I'd mark its position with a line, try not to disturb anything, and notify the Sheriff after the dive.
Rick

 

[ScubaNurse758]

I do hope that anyone considering a heroic recovery of this diver will do a quick search of David Shaw and his death in the attempt of a body that was considered unrecoverable.... And he was one of the most qualified for that type of recovery.

 

[Matt P]

I just watched the Vortex videos Cave Diver posted and the cavalier attitude shown in each one of them really bothers me. Every one of the divers I saw in those videos looks like a OW diver swimming past the grim reaper sign and into the cave. It appears...much like the Ballroom at Ginnie...that as long as they don't go past the gate everything is fine.

Agreed...I'm just a plain old OW diver and that's what they look like to me. Single tanks, single + pony, one guy with doubles stirring up the bottom. Those videos really stressed me out.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I do hope that anyone considering a heroic recovery of this diver will do a quick search of David Shaw and his death in the attempt of a body that was considered unrecoverable.... And he was one of the most qualified for that type of recovery.

That is a totally unique situation where depth is the determining factor, 800 plus ft. Its my opinion due to the extreme tightness of this cave that this dive is just as dangerous.

 

[ScubaNurse758]

That is a totally unique situation where depth is the determining factor, 800 plus ft. Its my opinion due to the extreme tightness of this cave that this dive is just as dangerous.

That was my point, equally dangerous, and probably more deceptively so because no extreme depth or distance is factored in.

 

[BIGG_BUDD]

There is room for common sense...
For example, if I were to run across a body/victim in a cave that I wasn't expecting and couldn't absolutely determine that it's dead, I for one will make every effort short of becoming a casualty myself to get the victim out, fast. If, on the other hand, it's definitely a body - due to obvious deterioration or prior knowledge (like in this case), then I'd mark its position with a line, try not to disturb anything, and notify the Sheriff after the dive.
Rick

Hi All -

Not a cave diver, but have a cave question - what if it's your buddy? What if something happens, suddenly, and they are not responding? Do you get them out of the cave, or do you run a line like Rick is suggesting?

I am thinking more along the lines of a crime scene. If you disturb it, you might become a suspect. Of course, if you don't move it, I guess you are still a suspect.

Thanks...

 

[Meister481]

Hi All -

Not a cave diver, but have a cave question - what if it's your buddy? What if something happens, suddenly, and they are not responding? Do you get them out of the cave, or do you run a line like Rick is suggesting?

I am thinking more along the lines of a crime scene. If you disturb it, you might become a suspect. Of course, if you don't move it, I guess you are still a suspect.

Thanks...

Depends on the situation, If I have the gas required to do it myself, I'm dragging them out.