Gear Help

[terrasmak]

Closed isolators, I assume 2 different mixes in your doubles, and colored regs to sort it out.

Scary stuff.

Good luck in your class.

+1 .

Just get your gear , i would say go with a DIR style setup , its simple and will meet requirements for most tech training . Last also get idea from your instructer/other tech divers in your area to learn more about what your getting yourself into.

Maybe a nice Naui Intro to tech or Master diver (with a tech instructer) could be very good to get you on the right path.

 

[MSilvia]

You can buy a BP/W already set up, but it'll cost you extra, and you're really going to need to know how to set it up and fit it yourself, so IMHO, it's a waste of money to go that route. Basicly, there are four parts to a BP/W sandwich.

First is the backplate, which I consider to be fairly standard... it's less important who made it, as even backplates from the same company can sometimes vary in manufacturer. What you should look for are center mounting holes spaced 11" apart at the center (top to bottom), smooth/beveled edges at the webbing slots, and if you want to use cam bands instead of an STA (single tank adaptor) for diving singles, slots in the plate for cam bands. If you'll use an STA, those slots aren't necessary, but they won't hurt. Generally speaking, for cold water you'll want a steel plate, and for warm water you'll want aluminium, but that can vary with individual divers' buoyancy needs.

The harness holds the plate to the diver, and there are basicly 2 types. Some like premanufactured harnesses with lots of adjustment points, pads, etc, and others opt for a Hogarthian harness... the single piece of webbing you thread yourself. Personally, I find I can adjust the Hog harness to fit anyone, and it's cheaper, more customizable, and really simple to replace. I find it to be just as comfortable as any of my old BCs.

The bolts holes in the plate are used to secure your doubles or STA, and the wing gets sandwiched between them. I have a comparison of several wings for single tank diving that I'll PM you. It shows some of the differences between the different features and manufacturers, but bear in mind that it covers single tank wings, not doubles. It'll give you a starting point, but you'll want to do your own research before buying. For your doubles, You're probably going to want a wing in the 40#-55# range. I'd recommend a single bladder wing if you'll be diving dry.

As for the second SPG, since you'll be diving with your isolator open (you will), and will only close it in an emergency, you don't need to know how much gas is in the isolated tank. You've already aborted the dive at that point, and your gas planning (which you'll learn) will ensure you have enough to get back. If you've somehow screwed up the planning (don't do that), or had a catastrophic loss of gas before you were able to isolate (practice isolating!) and nearly sucked the tank dry before you surface, you'll have a deco mix and a buddy, so there are several layers of redundancy options that make the second SPG irrelevant.

 

[Jason B]

As for whats happening in the class Jason, I wasnt saying that was what we were doing at all, I was simply asking another question that I had thought up and was intersted in.

My apologies, but you really should do some serious research on technical diving before jumping into an advanced nitrox/deco procedures/intro to trimix class.

There are some great instructors out there and some real crack pots. Unfortunately for you, you have no idea as to what is deemed safe and what is deemed "strokery" (for lack of a better word). This is going to put you at a disadvantage when it comes to interviewing potential instructors.

Spend some time pouring over the posts here in the tech section, use the search feature, ask questions, become informed.

As for the backplate, there is not a whole lot of difference as far as function goes. Some are deburred a bit more than others but otherwise, no big major difference from brand A to brand B. Plate composition and weight will have an effect and will probably be decided by the exposure protection used.
As for what wing is going to work, it is dependent on many variables. One of the big variables is the tank size you plan to use. Are you planning to use steel tanks? What size? How about deco bottles? Stage bottles?
How about your exposure protection? Drysuit or wetsuit (hopefully dry since deco means extended exposures)? That will also play a role in deciding the lift requirements of your wing.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Why ask....you seem to have all the answers already.

I assume thats sarcasm, not sure what that was intended for.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

My personal recommendation based on actual usage is DSS (Deep Sea Supply). Go to their website and check out their products. I bought the single tank rig with Hogarthian Harness, SS plate, and LCD30 wing. I also got the LCD 50 to use with doubles. I'm doubling lp95's and lp72's. Price is great, workmanship of the plate and wings is top shelf. I'll put my DSS rig up against my one buddy's Halcyon set up any time and he paid close to twice what I did for mine. Are there other rigs of equally good quality and reputation? Yes, but except for the H, I've not tried them. We have four transpacs at the shop and I considered going with one of them but there is just too much going on there. buckles, straps, rings in the wrong place for me and even my price as an employee was too much for something I saw would get tossed aside soon anyway. I'm not DIR yet. May never be but I cannot argue with most of their philosophy on gear and keeping things simple and standardized. I dive a long hose(7ft) with bungee back up when not DMing. And sometimes even when I am, in open water. I have an OS systems tri lam drysuit and I'll be diving the set up this weekend for the first time with the drysuit. I've got 20 some dives with it wet including 6 in the St. Lawrence and found it to be stable, secure, comfortable, and easy to get in and out of. It also looked a lot cooler than the big clunky jackets the others were wearing. I have one spg on a 24 inch hose clipped off on the left hip. I'll sometimes clip to the left chest ring if I'm carrying an extra bottle just for convenience. Biggest difference for me was the amount of weight I dropped off the belt. In 5mil with a steel hp80 and my probe jacket bc I needed 10 lbs to go down and hold a stop @ 10-15 ft in fresh water. With the BPW I wear zero weight on a belt and can easily hold a stop at 6 ft. The only time I wear any weight with this set up in fresh water is when I carry my can light on the right side of my waist belt. It's 3lbs neg in water. Then I'll put an xs scuba pocket on the left and drop a 2lb in there just to even things out. If I'm doing solo and carrying my pony I don't add the weight. the pony balances things out. As for threading a plate the DSS comes with really clear instructions and it took me all of 5 minutes to thread it. Adjusting is a little trickier but it's not rocket science and after a couple times it's instinctive. PM me if I can be of anymore help. BTW what did your Adv Nitrox and Deco course cost you. I'm trying to find one now.

Thank you Jim the weight related stuff is really what I was looking for. Appreciated.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Well I already have an instructor lined up that I am quite comfortable with Jason. I havent started taking classes so I dont know how I am taking so much flack from you guys for "stupid" questions.

As to the asking questions and becoming informed, that is what I am doing. If I wasnt careful about what I did I would be in the water with it instead of researching the hell out of it.

As to the stupid questions though, I dont just take everyhting I read at face value, so I do ask questions on the board that might be assumed to be stupid, but not everyplace that says not to do somehting says why not, and i'm looking for the why not.

As for the tech diving being ahead of me I am a diver now who has experienced problems and has worked my way around them. Going this route is my next big step and to think I am going to get to the class understanding everything is a big mistake, if that was the case I wouldnt be needing the class.
I asked questions in here to find answers which a handful of poeple provided for me while the rest seem to be making personal attacks on my not knowing enough about it, but how else to find out about it then to read and ask questions.

And if you need to know the reason I am trying to figure out gear wise preclass is so that I can go do some recreational diving in my doubles and new rig so I can have a high comfort level with it before its time to learn new techniques. Not to go sneak off and dive outside what I am capable of.

PS and sorry to go after you particularly Jason, but you are the only one that as of yet as not really made any contribution towards my questions until the very end of your last post, the rest of it was just telling me I was wrong or unsafe in my thoughts without asking them.
Thoughts arent unsafe as long as you ask them and get them out of the way before you do the diving. But how else to know than to ask and read.

 

[Jason B]

PS and sorry to go after you particularly Jason, but you are the only one that as of yet as not really made any contribution towards my questions until the very end of your last post, the rest of it was just telling me I was wrong or unsafe in my thoughts without asking them.

I was actually being sincere, but if that's how you read it, so be it.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Jason made plenty of contributions, you just didn't see them and probably won't until much later. I don't see Jason as jumping on you, but more...trying to get you to think all your decisions completely through. Think about each piece of gear and what it's function would be; advantages and disadvantages of each.

There are many options for a bp/w setup. If you don't have any of the pieces already it would probably be easier to order it as one big unit. There are plenty of options available--
Halcyon--many places to buy, the most prominent on the net is probably DiveGear.com For your setup you're probably looking at an Explorer 55 or an Evolve 60.
Agir-Brokk--usually sold by Salvo dealers. One I know of specifically is Hideaway Scuba, whom I have purchased an Agir wing from before. Probably looking for their 56lb doubles wing, I believe it's the "Habrok 56".
Oxycheq--Don't own an Oxycheq wing but they're supposed to be nice.
DeepSeaSupply--again, I don't own one but I have heard nice things about DeepSeaSupply as well.

If you have the extra cash (take the money you were going to spend on a 3rd second stage) I would get both an aluminum plate and a stainless steel plate. Depending on the thickness of your drysuit underwear you might want to switch them out (ie: aluminum for thinner underwear and ss for thicker underwear to account for the extra buoyancy of the thicker stuff).

 

[matt_unique]

The brand does not really matter if you address your functional needs. You need sufficient lift for your gear (double lp 104's will be relatively heavy) then add your reels, deco bottles, tank bands, manifold, etc. Based on the weight of your tanks, I would suggest an aluminum back plate. It's only going to make a few lbs difference but it seems like your setup will be heavy.

Dry suit works as redundant buoyancy. What kind of suit will you be wearing? You need to be horizontal to use your suit to prevent air from burping out of your neck seal.

Like everything in scuba, everyone has their preferences and their tried and true reasons for them. For a harness, I prefer the deluxe harness with a plastic buckle on the left shoulder. It is easier to get out of (for you) and easier for someone to do a rescue should that ever be necessary. The convenience is outstanding. Contrary to what you will soon be told about the "failure point", even a disconnected buckle underwater is barely noticeable and in no way critical to safely finishing the dive. Plastic breaks if smashed, metal bends beyond use, so the moral is don't smash any of your gear Our regs are plastic as are many other critical gear pieces.

Unless your instructor is teaching you tech diving via independent doubles, you can't have different mixes in your doubles. The most important skill you will be practicing over and over is a valve drill. One regulator on each post. You donate what is in your mouth and breath off your necklace. You only need 1 spg. If you have to shut down a post, you're going to the surface or your first deco stop. At that stage of the game, you better have planned your gas usage including various contingency deco plans.

BTW I use Dive Rite gear (SS back plate, deluxe harness, Classic wing (59 lbs of lift)). Dive Rite is usually priced very good.

--Matt

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Why ask....you seem to have all the answers already.

Hey Jeff my brother, this is nothing. Too bad you can't read certain other forums.

It does however make reading this particular thread that much more fun with this guy. He had all the answers there too. Seems as though telling someone they're just dead wrong isn't the way to go anymore.

We are such outcasts.

Anything but DIR, even if I don't know why.

lol.