Gas planning and the associated math - controversies over need and how to teach

[Colliam7]

I find it hard to believe that someone can become a "certified" diver who can not perform a simple gas calculation and that intelligent people can stand around and wring their hands over whether such gas calculations are "elaborations" of "exceedings," and thus permitted or prohibited. In my view this is foolishness bordering on the medieval Scholastic.

Thal, I don't disagree about the first part - people who become certified divers should be able to perfom simple gas calculations. Personally, I think that people who become certified divers should have common sense. And, I think they should not smoke. And, I think they should always brush their teeth. But, I cannot require those things for certification, and expect PADI to support me if the failed student protests, because they are not part of the standards. In (perhaps bad-intentioned) self-defense, or at least self-preservation, my previous comment was not at all a reflection of hand-wringing, rather an attempt to tease out what is an elaboration vs additional skill insertion which would exceed standards, as related to Peter's original question about 'flexibility'. As I have applied the standards for PADI OW training, I see no place in the Knowledge Development materials (or Confined Water or Open Water skill assessment) that requires a student to perform gas consumption calculations. Whether that is a shortcoming of PADI OW training or not, whether we all agree that gas management caculations are an intergral part of training, etc. was not the point I was addressing. Rather I was looking, perhaps unsuccessfully, for an example of something that I see no problem including in the academic discussion portion, but which I could not REQUIRE for certification, since that requirement is not part of the standards as I interpret them. Yes, this is a didactic discussion. But, the original issue I was trying to address was not gas management, rather elaboration vs exceeding standards. If you disagree, and believe that such a requirement would be an acceptable elaboration, rather than something which exceeds standards, fine. Say so.

 

[Teamcasa]

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[TSandM]

I would have agreed with Thal, had I not seen a couple in my OW class completely stymied by the RDP, all the way through to the end of the class.

But I think you CAN introduce the idea of "rock bottom" or "bingo gas", and give people some very rough rules of thumb on what it should be. You can even go through a quick SAC rate and gas supply calculation for a hypothetical dive, and make it clear you don't expect everybody to be able to do this at the end of the class, but this is where the numbers you are giving them come from.

In an advanced, or deep class, I think you SHOULD run through SAC rate calculations and have divers do them, and have them evaluate a proposed dive for its suitability -- "Do I have enough gas to do the dive? Do I have enough to maintain safe reserves?" And I think it's also very good to calculate the time at depth, given the SAC rate they figure out for themselves, and make the point that often, GAS will put a limit on their dive time before NDLs will.

People get the wits scared out of them about DCS, but running out of gas and drowning is much more final. Running out of gas and embolizing is, too.

 

[SparticleBrane]

KrisB, I think one of the issues here is that you are worried about getting people to memorize a formula and then 'plug & chug' the answer. Otherwise known as "teaching to the test". This will immediately be forgotten as soon as the exam is over, leaving the student without any idea how to actually calculate their air consumption. While you might not find it "useful" for the first several dives, having students calculate their air consumption on all their dives is a useful tool to show them just how much things can change between dives based on task loading and stress.

Thal and others are more concerned about concepts. If the students in question understand a few basic concepts, they can derive how to calculate their air consumption on their own. You are complaining that it's "too hard" to teach this, yet we teach it to our students every semester with a minimal amount of trouble. In our case I wouldn't argue that all of our students remember everything we teach them -- you obviously get a small number of knuckleheads in each class, especially in the college courses. 9 out of 10 people in the class won't ever go diving again, so I certainly wouldn't expect them to remember it ("Use it or lose it"). But for those that continue diving, they seem to hold a firm grasp of the concepts that are taught.

By teaching concepts and knowing that the students are equipped to figure things out for themselves after class, the students are better prepared to plan dives based off of their air consumption as they get more comfortable in the water and they watch their air consumption drop.

In our program, we strive to equip students with the basic knowledge to go out and find the answers for themselves, rather than being dependent on an instructor. By keeping someone dependent and spoon-feeding them answers, you are only hindering their intellectual and personal growth, whereas, we are hoping that they will come out of our program equipped to help themselves. This applies to all facets of life, not just scuba.


And yes, the diatribe about falling standards in high school is, from what I have observed, completely valid. You wouldn't believe how many of our students are working towards engineering degrees, but "can't do math without a calculator". (yes, I'm talking about basic scuba math)

 

[don Francisco]

There is a material difference in the skill set required to dive with charters and to dive independantly. This has long been one of my pet peeves regarding the state of training.

If I were King, the OW course would only certify divers to dive with charters, IE with a divemaster who planned the dives. The AOW course would emphasize and develope those skills required to dive independently, such as dive planning including both NDL and air consumption, navigation, reading currents, etc.

I don't have problems with inadequately trained divers per se, it's just that we should be honest and tell them their limitations and maybe hint at how more they have to learn.

Sadly, even if you decide to teach gas management, the math skills of even college graduates today may not be up to the task. You won't get anyway until someone developes a little calculator so they could push a few buttons and out would pop the answer.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The greatest benefit you can give to any diver by teaching them gas management is to get them out of the habit of thinking about how much gas to end the dive with, and get them into the habit of thinking about how much gas they will need before the dive ever begins.

Although I will take my students through the math, it is the mindset I want to instill. The concepts of gas planning are far more important than the equations. Some people are better at math than others. But if you get them thinking about the concepts first, the math suddenly becomes less "scary" and they'll put more effort into understanding what it means.

Ultimately, it isn't the instructor who will teach them this ... it is they who will decide it's worth learning.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

If my wife/buddy had to do gas calculations in order to dive, I'd be doing all my diving solo. I see nothing wrong with presenting the concept as there are folks who can and will use it. But there is a lot of perfectly safe recreational diving that can be planned and executed without gas calculation.

How many folks driving down the highway do you think have planned their trip based on fuel consumption rates and fuel capacities? Their planning probably does not go much further than knowing, from experience, whether they will have to stop and get gas or not.

 

[Melicertes]

How many folks driving down the highway do you think have planned their trip based on fuel consumption rates and fuel capacities? Their planning probably does not go much further than knowing, from experience, whether they will have to stop and get gas or not.

Granted, but when they run out of gas on the freeway it does mean it's a life or death emergency as it would be when they run out of breathing gas at depth.

 

[redacted]

Granted, but when they run out of gas on the freeway it does mean it's a life or death emergency as it would be when they run out of breathing gas at depth.

Running out of gas on scuba is not a life or death emergency either. You did have some plan for redundancy, didn't you??? If not, better take another look at golf.

 

[SparticleBrane]

How many folks driving down the highway do you think have planned their trip based on fuel consumption rates and fuel capacities?

*raises hand*