Wreck diving - how to proceed

[ginti]

With renting D12 for helium fills I will be also loosing the residual gas, the same as filling it to my current D12 and emptying it because of nitrox fills for rec dives. So it is not just the price for renting D12 which you need to count in but also wasting money on helium which is way more expensive compared to the rental prices. I think the second set of D12 will pay out after one year (the new one, used one even earlier). Do I miss something?

You do not miss anything. Here in France we often have "distance restrictions", meaning that we cannot go too far from home. Because of that, I managed to do only one T1 dive this year.
So for me that's ok.

I need to make the calculation, but I think that you may lose 50€ of He per dive plus the rent - well, I would buy a new set of bi12 if I were you

 

[mc42]

My experience:
- Completed Fundies Tech
- PADI Tec 40/45 + Trimix
- PADI Wreck specialty, which is a recreational specialty that allows for light zone penetration up to 130 linear feet from the surface and basic line work

IMO, with the redundancy from the doubles you can do a lot with the solid skills from Fundies. Good buoyancy control and proper kick selection will help prevent silting. As long as you're careful with running lines and keeping to your gas limits, especially the rule of thirds, it can be lots of fun. There is a ton to learn after Fundies-Tech, so that is just opening the door to further education so I think you're doing well to consider your next step now.

You didn't say how deep your wrecks are. Our wrecks here are artificial, so light zone penetration can be done safely, even if you're in a long corridor because there are many exit cutouts for divers to bail out. The interesting depths for penetration are often around 90' or more, and deeper wrecks like the Cape Breton have the engine room at 140' so you won't see as much if you don't have tech training.

I've also done technical wreck penetrations with deco and stage, and that's been the benefit of taking tech training into wrecks - extended bottom times for sure, having the training to deal with issues in an overhead environment (even though you are theoretically within recreational limits) and potential use of Trimix. Ultimately, if you have interest in wrecks, these is great benefit in doing both wreck and tech training.

I got a lot out of the PADI Wreck course (4 dives). It's nothing like the AOW dive that was mostly about navigating a wreck. You (should) learn line work, working as a team, and do some penetrations. Naturally, check with the instructor to see what you'll be doing. RAID and SSI also have advanced wreck penetration (and SSI also has tech wreck) courses that does more than PADI, but PADI's seems to do more than the RAID basic or SSI basic.

 

[ChuckP]

lol

Funny, I feel the same way when someone mentions GUE - LMAO as I sit here relaxing after 150' on air today with 63% in the deco bottle smoking a cigarrette.....

 

[Degenerate]

I still don't think about any other agencies for my training, just wanted to mention that I met some SwedTech divers (instructors included) and they are excellent divers who are for sure capable to run excellent courses. I am not familiar with their curriculum though, maybe it is worth to check it and ask them about it directly though - I am curious about how they are going to defend "entry level tech course for divers with single tanks and the use of 2 stage/deco bottles" (if they really have such a course still).

Their instructors and courses were definitely HIGH quality, unfortunately it seems to have degraded to the point where there is little interest from the top brass to keep it going.
A shame really, as they could have been a great organization.

Congrats on the Fundies class btw, saw Per posted about it on Facebook, top bloke who runs a great Fundies class

 

[lostsheep]

I know about this. John Chatterton is for sure one of the best wreck divers and I have been considering a lot taking this course with him - the reason why I am hesitant is that I know he has very specific approach to team diving and he promotes that every diver should be foremost an independent diver. That is totally opposite compared to GUE approach which I like much more. He is also far away from DIR diving, which I am not saying is a completely bad thing either, but I am not sure it is for me.

Chatterton teaches wreck diving, not buoyancy, not trim, and not synchronized swimming.

I’m not a DIR guy but all my buddies are, I’ve done fundies, and I did wreck with Chatterton. I prefer to learn from as many people as possible and to make up my own mind. A LOT of what chatterton had to say stuck with me, and a good bit of it I’m not going to implement. His wreck diving exploits speak for themselves, some of his student’s buoyancy / trim ...not so much.

 

[Germie]

You live in Sweden, so ever thought about a decocourse and a minediver course? This will also bring you in wrecks. Of course you can also travel to France for cavediving. But this opens the wrecks and the mines/caves for you. And as said already: there is always a better divesite i.e. wreck or cave.

Personally I would start with a decocourse and then look into overhead.

 

[ginti]

Personally I would start with a decocourse and then look into overhead.

May I ask you why would you go with this approach?

The reason why I am interested in it is that actually I went for the exact opposite way (first cave, then deco), and, frankly speaking, I would do it again. Here's the reasoning behind my approach:
(1) Cave has more many rules for navigation and communication, but these rules are not rocket science; if a diver follows them, dives within intro to cave limits are fairly easy.
(2) Although easier than doing deco in the blue, caves have a ceiling that adds a bit of stress; so it's a perfect way to start managing basic skills in stressful conditions (this is true for newbies, not for experts).
(3) No expensive mix required: one can make a lot of experience, without burning a lot of cash.
Once skills are refined, one can move to a deco course on OW, which is quite tough in terms of basic skills (a proper ascent and a proper deco stop in the blue with a strong current is quite hard)

Am I missing something? Or maybe we just have different points of view?

 

[arthurng311]

May I ask you why would you go with this approach?

The reason why I am interested in it is that actually I went for the exact opposite way (first cave, then deco), and, frankly speaking, I would do it again. Here's the reasoning behind my approach:
(1) Cave has more many rules for navigation and communication, but these rules are not rocket science; if a diver follows them, dives within intro to cave limits are fairly easy.
(2) Although easier than doing deco in the blue, caves have a ceiling that adds a bit of stress; so it's a perfect way to start managing basic skills in stressful conditions (this is true for newbies, not for experts).
(3) No expensive mix required: one can make a lot of experience, without burning a lot of cash.
Once skills are refined, one can move to a deco course on OW, which is quite tough in terms of basic skills (a proper ascent and a proper deco stop in the blue with a strong current is quite hard)

Am I missing something? Or maybe we just have different points of view?

My experience was that cave 1 is much tougher than tech 1, many more skills which needs to be drilled in, how to read a cave, how to deal with loss line/loss buddy procedures plus gas loss valve shutdown drills. I recommend people take tech1 before cave 1 as tech 1 already covers some of the basic line drills and most importantly the gas loss scenarios, other than that tech 1 is a easy course in my opinion. I have had buddies pass fundies with tech but fail cave1 and needed extra time but never the other way around.

 

[Germie]

Because you get some skills already and most times the wrecks or caves are a little bit deeper. (Not talking about caves in Mexico), so you want to do some time over NDL. Better is to know already what to do then. It will happen that divers go over NDL in a wreck, even if the wreck is just at 30m. Same with some caves for example. You hit deco before you hit a turnpressure. And as already said: you want to know what is behind that curve, you want to see that little bit deeper wreck.

 

[ginti]

Because you get some skills already and most times the wrecks or caves are a little bit deeper. (Not talking about caves in Mexico), so you want to do some time over NDL. Better is to know already what to do then.

Ok, got it.

There are some places where caves are fairly shallow (France, Sardinia, and others), and I dive primarily there, which is why your argument does not much sense in my case (it does for wrecks, but then if one does first intro-to-cave, skills will be there after the deco course). Otherwise, you're right... I am just not sure if I would start doing cave diving below 20/max30m, I find it a bit risky for a newbie.

My experience was that cave 1 is much tougher than tech 1, many more skills which needs to be drilled in, how to read a cave, how to deal with loss line/loss buddy procedures plus gas loss valve shutdown drills. I recommend people take tech1 before cave 1 as tech 1 already covers some of the basic line drills and most importantly the gas loss scenarios, other than that tech 1 is a easy course in my opinion. I have had buddies pass fundies with tech but fail cave1 and needed extra time but never the other way around.

Exactly the opposite of my experience I and my friends find way more difficult the ascent in the blue than the skills in an overhead environment. I know people who got provisional on T1, but none who got it on C1 (although there are some, for sure, as there are people who failed the courses). These are also good reasons is why I suggest everyone do C1 before T1.

At the end of the day, I believe it's quite personal.