Wreck diving - how to proceed

[Ulfhedinn]

Chatterton teaches wreck diving, not buoyancy, not trim, and not synchronized swimming.

I’m not a DIR guy but all my buddies are, I’ve done fundies, and I did wreck with Chatterton. I prefer to learn from as many people as possible and to make up my own mind. A LOT of what chatterton had to say stuck with me, and a good bit of it I’m not going to implement. His wreck diving exploits speak for themselves, some of his student’s buoyancy / trim ...not so much.

Would love to see a write up on this. Even if it was basic. This is on my bucket list.

 

[knuhol]

Chatterton teaches wreck diving, not buoyancy, not trim, and not synchronized swimming.

Truth. Thanks for giving it into this perspective, I have something to think about again

You live in Sweden, so ever thought about a decocourse and a minediver course?

I like GUE and don't see any reason why not to proceed with their education. T1 will give me exactly what I want + it would take more courses from other organisations to get there + I don't trust the eduaction will be as high quality as GUE offers.
C1 is a bit different story - I am not interested in caves very much, mines maybe (local divers say it is a good fun for winter, when wreck diving is limited) and despite I heard some divers saying that more serious wreck penetration is like cave diving, I am not sure I fully agree with that - wrecks are wrecks, caves are caves. They have lot of specifics and different challenges, the same way as caves have lot of specifics and different challenges compared to mines. So, while T1 is a very straight forward choice for me, I am not sure if I want to take C1 at all. Sure, it will make me a better diver, it will allow me to dive both caves and mines, but both are just backups for me when wreck diving is not available/possible. I am not sure if C1 is the best course for me hence my main focus is going to be wreck diving. The same story applies also on mine courses.

These are also good reasons is why I suggest everyone do C1 before T1.

I think it highly depends on what you want to dive. I am mosty interested in local wreck diving, caves are not available anywhere nearby from where I live and cave diving doesn't sound appealing to me anyway. In that case it doesn't make sense at all for me to take C1 before T1 - I wouldn't be doing many C1 dives per year, so why to have the card first (if at all)? T1 is a completely different story, I will utilise all what the course offer very often. If somebody is in the opposite situation, i.e. interested mainly in cave diving and deco is just a minor dive case for him/her, it makes totally sense to take C1 first.
And as I wrote earlier - I am still not sure if I should take C1 or some specialised wreck penetration training instead, so I don't feel any need to take C1 before T1 if I don't know yet if I want to ever do it (probably yes, but right now I see it as a maybe and very long term thing). Shame that GUE still doesn't have a wreck course and states that wrecks are just another caves

 

[jlcnuke]

Well, there are a LOT of similarities between penetrating wrecks and diving in caves, and the basic principles seem to match up. Some specifics can be different (line placements, thickness, entanglement hazard assessment, etc.), but I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a cave instructor that is also an instructor for another agency in advanced wreck diving or with similar experience to mentor and teach you both in your area. I'd talk to instructors about your goals, their experience, and see if you can find a match for the diving you want to do with whatever agency (maybe GUE, maybe something else) who will train you to do the dives you're looking to do in the future.

In my experience, good instructors will utilize all of their training and experience to give you the best training for the diving you plan to do. I now brief dives with GUE EDGE despite having never taken a GUE course as a result of my instructor's experiences and training shaping how they trained me and my training and experiences shaping how I dive. Just because it's not on the syllabus from the organization for the course doesn't mean you can't find an instructor to teach you it if you communicate with them your goals etc.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@knuhol

I'd suggest reaching out to Andy Davis via his website Sidemount Technical Wreck | Andy Davis Technical Diving Philippines. I can't speak for him, but I think he'd advise you to go as far as you can with the GUE route with fundamental skills, decompression, etc.. Then go to a wreck penetration specialist like him.

 

[ginti]

@knuhol

I'd suggest reaching out to Andy Davis via his website Sidemount Technical Wreck | Andy Davis Technical Diving Philippines. I can't speak for him, but I think he'd advise you to go as far as you can with the GUE route with fundamental skills, decompression, etc.. Then go to a wreck penetration specialist like him.

Not that in Sweden there aren't GUE wrecks specialists... I am thinking about Richard Lundgren. But I believe it is always good to speak with people with different backgrounds, so welcome to your suggestion!

I think it highly depends on what you want to dive. I am mosty interested in local wreck diving, caves are not available anywhere nearby from where I live and cave diving doesn't sound appealing to me anyway. In that case it doesn't make sense at all for me to take C1 before T1 - I wouldn't be doing many C1 dives per year, so why to have the card first (if at all)? T1 is a completely different story, I will utilise all what the course offer very often. If somebody is in the opposite situation, i.e. interested mainly in cave diving and deco is just a minor dive case for him/her, it makes totally sense to take C1 first.
And as I wrote earlier - I am still not sure if I should take C1 or some specialised wreck penetration training instead, so I don't feel any need to take C1 before T1 if I don't know yet if I want to ever do it (probably yes, but right now I see it as a maybe and very long term thing). Shame that GUE still doesn't have a wreck course and states that wrecks are just another caves

You're totally right. If I were you, I wouldn't bother with the C1. Do the T1, start diving around wrecks, then, if you like them, you can decide which route to take for penetration.

I just tell you something: every person I spoke with suggested me to think about wreck penetration only after MASSIVE experience. I give you two extreme situations, the first being actually VERY common, the second being EXTREMELY rare:
(1) one thing is to dive into a wreck that everyone knows well; these wrecks are usually small (otherwise only a few people would know it well ), and usually you can visit the inside of the wreck with a simple overhead training, even cavern
(2) another thing is to penetrate deep inside big and unknown wrecks; risks here are really crazy. The wreck may even collapse when you are inside, so first of all you need to be able to estimate the conditions of the wrecks (which means that you need to know wrecks very well - e.g. a lot of experience in your backpack). Using reel and spool is quite different than inside caves or mines since all the metal could cut the line (!). The wreck stability may depend on its position on the bottom, and on the kind of soil...

Now, the second point is clearly very extreme, and I am not even sure that a wreck exists with all those dangers (probably each advanced wreck has only some of them). Anyway, because of all these major issues, people suggested me the following path:
1) get a lot of experience in "easy" overhead environment (caves or mines), so to be comfortable with the risk of getting lost, and with the management of issues in an overhead environment
2) dive as many wrecks as possible without entering
3) start thinking about penetration

Be aware that this information are second-hand, indeed I absolutely do not have any experience with wreck penetration (I have been inside a wreck here in France, but it was absolutely the easy kind where you can enter with very basic overhead training)

In any case, the path is straightforward: firstly T1, diving a lot of wrecks, check if you like them or not, then go for overhead environment

 

[knuhol]

Thanks a lot for many useful advices to all of you, I really appreciate it!

 

[lermontov]

getting your fundamental skills honed is a given for wreck or cave or any diving really, all agencies cover the minimums. what is most important is building up experience to make correct judgement calls, and even on a 'simple' dive being able to recognise potential danger before it crashes down on you is crucial. dive lots and build up

 

[Manatee Diver]

Would love to see a write up on this. Even if it was basic. This is on my bucket list.

@tmassey did a review of both this normoxic and advanced wreck with Chatterton.

Advanced Wreck
Advanced Wreck with John Chatterton (in 2015)

Normoxic Trimix
Review: TDI Normoxic Trimix with John Chatterton, November 2019

 

[Divrtim]

I started diving wrecks before there were wreck specialized classes, certifications and for that matter agency related classes. That being said here a couple of observations I can share from my experience. Wreck diving requires pre-dive planning, dive plan, equipment to be used and adequate gas to make a round trip. There are four phases of a wreck dive to be managed'

1) The decent assessing viz, currents, temp and acquiring the wreck, location of the assent line/buoy).

2) The penetration assess viz, currents and extraction/exit point), If you've dove the wreck before follow your plan. If this is a first time exploration, secure a line and use it. Actually there is no down side to using a reel. Monitor your GAS, SAC rate! and accumulating deco obligation. Be mindful of the preplanned time to explore. If its ten minutes, dont stretch it to 15. This is very important on deep dives. Plan your dive and dive your plan. Don't kick up silt!

3)The extraction BEFORE entering a compartment, assess how you can/will get out. Just because you can see light across a compartment doesn't always mean you can get out that way. Often is the case, light can penetrate around debris and structure that you can not see. Continually monitor your reel line tension. Follow your line out and make sure you are clear of both the compartment and over hanging structure that can catch your hoses.

4) The deco assent. ALL ascents are decompression events. Locate the assent line. Go up as a buddy team. Do not skip deco stops. Be mindful of currents, viz and SAC rate. I've found using a john line helpful.

The best training I've ever had that is applicable to wreck diving is cave diving experience. You'll learn to run a reel, manage buoyancy in an overhead environment, learn fin kicking styles to minimize silt disruption, work and manage your gear in low viz environments and confining areas. A wreck is for all essential purposes a cave. There are two ceiling you need to monitor. One is the physical structure and the other is the deco obligation. Be safe and dont skip the deco stops.