FYI: Hydros in North Bay

[Eric Sedletzky]

I took some tanks into Santa Rosa Fire Equipment on Portal Ave in RP and they gave me a little run around as far as getting hydros done on a few tanks.

They are claiming that they *have* to do a VIP before they do a hydro and they are charging $18 additional dollars for this. I asked them about this new policy and the guy was somewhat vague as to why they had to do it. Everybody knows that tanks get VIP'd for flash rust AFTER they get hydroed not before. He claimed that when the tanks leave his shop he has to guarantee that it is clean and ready to use for consumable air. I told him I've never heard of any such law and since they were not giving it back to me full they had no responsibility to make sure it was VIP'd for consumable air only to make sure there weren't any deep pits before they hydro.
I told him the dive shop checks to make sure it has a current VIP sticker before they will fill it.

The scuba industry is the only industry to have an annual VIP inspection as far as I know. There is no governing body that enforces any such law, it's a dive industry protocol. Anybody can become a tank jockey at a dive shop without anything, they just learn to do the job and do it.
I explained to him I wanted hydros ONLY and that I do my own cleaning and VIP's. He asked who I was certified through to do my own VIP's and I told him they covered it in my DSAT gas blender certification course along with 02cleaning protocols, etc. He claimed he never heard of DSAT.

So anyway he agreed to just do hydros but this was the last time he would do it (if it was the law he wouldn't have budged on it)
Yeah, BS.
So now if you take your tanks to SRFE expect to pay 38 dollars and no fill.

Sounds to me like they are just trying to find another way to make a few extra dollars off people. I wonder if the dive shops have anything to do with this because out of the blue he mentions that they needed to give dive shops a break with the volume they bring in and they usually didn't get individual walk-ins, and then he was saying something about it not being fair that I go in there and expect the same price as the dive shops? He lost me at that point because I didn't say a word about this, I just wanted a hydro. Hmmm, I wonder if the shops have been bitching about people going around them? It wouldn't surprise me, everybody's hurting right now and looking for additional revenue sources.

I called the place on Yolanda just for giggles and they said they charge $25 for hydros. I asked if that included a VIP and the girl didn't know what that was. She went and asked the guy in the back and he said they didn't do scuba tank VIP's just hydros. He said that was the dive shops responsibility and I needed to take it to a dive shop for that. I asked them if they heard of this supposed new VIP law and they said "What law?". Yeah, thank you, just what I thought.

Looks like the place on Yolanda gets my business from now on with my 10 tanks.
I don't like Bull sh_tters.

 

[blewgrass]

I had a similar experience a couple of weeks ago. I had to haggle a bit to get the hydro without the visual. The irony is that once you get the hydro, most shops will give you a sticker (one year visual) for nothing because they know the cylinder has been inspected. Legally a fresh hydro is a visual for one year. It might even be true that a new hydro precludes you from needing a visual for a year.

I could be wrong about this, but a dive shop saw the invoice from SRFE and slapped a sticker on there for nothing. I bought a fill card and made purchases, as not to simply show up and have them give me stuff for free...

SRFE is a good outfit and the young guy in charge of the hydros was reasonable with me, but clearly wanted to do the visuall and hydro together to save from having to do free labor on the visual.

Perhaps it is not law, but I commend the owner of the shop for requiring the visual from his staff before performing a hydro. If you take a minute to see things from a business owners standpoint, who is looking at a process that can cause injury or death to an employee, any additional inspections on cylinders is good measure.

I'm sure a business like this gets emails and memo's describing nasty shop accidents in this industry, sending waves of fear into management.

I like the $20 dollar hydro, but can't really blame them for their position.

Have you tried Airgas or any of the welding supply places for hydro cost?

 

[dannobee]

They are required to do a visual inspection before the hydro as per CGA pamphlet C-6.1.

It is part of the hydro inspection, not something that they can charge more for, just to squeeze more money out of the consumer.

Wow. Who do you tell to snitch on him? The DOT? The BBB?

I bet if you read between the lines, some dive shop turned him on to this new way of generating revenue, without even researching any applicable regulations.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I have been sending tanks to SRFE for years. Back when they were on Sebastopol Rd. the old man that used to do them would only do hydros and they were $20 bucks. For a while when they had a compressor they used to offer a diver special which was a hydro, a VIP with sticker, and a fill all for $35. Later they discontinued the diver special and would only do hydros for $20.
I remember asking him once if they could at least put a sticker on it and he said that if a tank had a fresh hydro it was automatically VIP'd for one year from the hydro date. He dug around anyway and found a sticker in a drawer and gave it to me to make me feel better.

I remember he would peek inside the tank which would take all of 10 seconds and if there was any rust he would call me and tell me the tank needed to be shot blasted before they could hydro it. They charged $20 for shot blasting and the tank came out spotless. So for $40 you got it cleaned and hydroed.

So now the new guy charges me $18 to spin off the valve and take all of 10 seconds with a light to see if it's safe to hydro which they have to do anyway as part of the hydro. Why don't they just raise the cost of hydros if they feel they aren't getting enough and quit playing these games?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I had a similar experience a couple of weeks ago. I had to haggle a bit to get the hydro without the visual. The irony is that once you get the hydro, most shops will give you a sticker (one year visual) for nothing because they know the cylinder has been inspected. Legally a fresh hydro is a visual for one year. It might even be true that a new hydro precludes you from needing a visual for a year.

That is true but some shops want to see a sticker anyway because sometimes there can be flash rust after a hydro if they didn't dry the tank properly. I've seen it both ways. Some shops are just ill informed and will argue.

I could be wrong about this, but a dive shop saw the invoice from SRFE and slapped a sticker on there for nothing. I bought a fill card and made purchases, as not to simply show up and have them give me stuff for free...

You got lucky, I've never had this happen. I would at least be willing to give them a few bucks for the sticker, they aren't free.

SRFE is a good outfit and the young guy in charge of the hydros was reasonable with me, but clearly wanted to do the visuall and hydro together to save from having to do free labor on the visual.

Perhaps it is not law, but I commend the owner of the shop for requiring the visual from his staff before performing a hydro. If you take a minute to see things from a business owners standpoint, who is looking at a process that can cause injury or death to an employee, any additional inspections on cylinders is good measure.

I'm sure a business like this gets emails and memo's describing nasty shop accidents in this industry, sending waves of fear into management.

What nasty shop accidents? I haven't heard of any steel tanks blowing up in any of the Sonoma County dive shops ever that I can recall.
All they need to do before a hydro is look to be sure there are no deep rust pits. A slight overall rust haze does not pose any hazard but they will want it cleaned before they hydro it. Any time a tank gets shot blasted it automatically needs to be hydroed because this is the most invasive type of cleaning with the most material removed. Tumbling and wire brushes are the least invasive and don't require hydros after cleaning. I have all my own cleaning tools and my tanks come out better than any other process I've seen, even shot blast. Shot blasting leaves a texture that can attract water and hold it. Even though shot blast looks great right after they do it, it doesn't take much to see rust grab hold if the air isn't anything but perfect. Brushing leaves the inside shiny and brilliant and more resistant to pitting.

When the tank is being hydroed and under pressure it is submerged deep down in a tank of water. When they pressurize it with water it's not like air that if the tank blows the air expands several times like a bomb, water doesn't compress so if the tank ruptures it cracks under water and water goes into water. There isn't any real volume of water that has to go anywhere, just the amount over the resting internal volume of the tank. They pressurize 5/3 over to stretch the tank.

I like the $20 dollar hydro, but can't really blame them for their position.

Even if they needed to raise to price of hydros to pay for the new equipment fine, just don't BS me.

Have you tried Airgas or any of the welding supply places for hydro cost?

Yes, the place on Yolanda does them for $25 without games so that's where I'm going.

 

[andrewy]

The place in Oakland does hydro without + stamp for $18 a tank Ace Fire as i recall. they use water and leave fine rust inside though

 

[blewgrass]

Wow Zky!

Thanks for all the good detailed info. I was taking a wild guess about the hazards. Most of the tank failure "rumors" seem to come out of FL with the whole cave diving thing...

I really don't know a lot about tanks...still trying to learn the best tank to dive for me. I learn mostly what I read here and questions I ask the guys at SRFE..

Good to know about Airgas. Unless I buy more used tanks I should be set for 5 years at least.

 

[dannobee]

The place in Oakland does hydro without + stamp for $18 a tank Ace Fire as i recall. they use water and leave fine rust inside though

Acme fire extinguisher, IIRC.

 

[Peter_C]

Good to know about Airgas.

It is not Airgas on Yolanda it is Fire Equipment Services. They are right across the street from Redwood Oil.

 

[saf1]

May want to read the OSHA regs on cylinders. 29 and 49 CFR's - although the 49 series is more related whereas the 29 is for fire extinguishers.

May or may not apply to the extra charge or what not but maintenance on cylinders is actually a big deal and governed.