FYI: Hydros in North Bay

[Peter_C]

What maintenance are you talking about? Who governs the maintenance? Why I have never been asked to provide paper work?

As to OSHA 49 CFR are you referring to the drug testing or carrying hazardous waste in our tanks? Maybe someone out there is putting nuclear waste into their scuba tank? This could be serious! or not...

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

May want to read the OSHA regs on cylinders. 29 and 49 CFR's - although the 49 series is more related whereas the 29 is for fire extinguishers.

May or may not apply to the extra charge or what not but maintenance on cylinders is actually a big deal and governed.

Yes, a hydro every 5 years and a VIP annually. I am trained to do my own VIP's and know what to look for inside and out. The only thing I can't do are older AL tanks but I don't own any AL's so it doesn't concern me.

 

[saf1]

What maintenance are you talking about? Who governs the maintenance? Why I have never been asked to provide paper work?

As to OSHA 49 CFR are you referring to the drug testing or carrying hazardous waste in our tanks? Maybe someone out there is putting nuclear waste into their scuba tank? This could be serious! or not...

I'd hope you would be asked if you took a tank with no markings or stamps and asked it to be filled. If not, then I would not use that shop anymore.

If you own your own tanks then I'm going to assume you have the required hydrostatic and visual tests and inspections done, yeah? If so, then who do you think requires that and why? If you said OSHA then you get a point. If not, then you don't.

The regualtions do cover hazmat as you sort of joked about but nowhere did I say putting hazardous mats into a tank. I was stating that there are indeed rules and regulations that govern this. You, being a end user, probably wouldn't care about it. But to the business owner who has to service them it is another story. From storage to air compressors used to fill the tanks - he is, or could be, inspected and sited if he or she does it outside said regs. Cross contanmination, rust, stress fractures, etc. There is a proper way to fill the tanks for a reason, just as there is to store them.

We probably both agree that cylinders can contain various sources, true? We would probably also both agree that if one fell over that was full and somehow knocked off the valve it would become a bottle rocket. Youtube has some pretty good videos of these types of accidents. To be fair what is the probability of this happening to you or I? Maybe slim to none. But to be honest the rules and regs in the standards are there because something happened at one time or another and thus it is written down.

OSHA isn't going to look at you. But they will look at operations / business. Why? Safety. Belittle it all you want or make jokes. I'm just telling you that as someone who inspects facilities and accidents they are important. And if there is a accident and OSHA gets involved, fines can be laid down. OSHA's site allows you to search accident reports based on companies names. You can see the reports and fines, etc.

1910 talks about compressed gases, equipment, commercial diving, etc. Also references the 49 series and other pamphlets. It is a boring read and some pertains to other uses. Just note it is all for reference. And the kicker? There is a general clause that can be used when all else fails.

Good to see the forum hasn't changed at all...

 

[Peter_C]

1910 talks about compressed gases, equipment, commercial diving, etc. Also references the 49 series and other pamphlets. It is a boring read and some pertains to other uses. Just note it is all for reference.

Good to see the forum hasn't changed at all...

Good to see you missed my humor. There are way too many pages in those documents, and all you said was check 29 and 49. The spectrum they cover is huge and I was not about to spend time reading boring material that pertains to other uses. Posting a direct link would have helped. For instance posting DOT's regulations.

Yes I will pay to have my tanks receive their every 5 year visual and hydro from the local testers. I will not pay for anything more though which is the point of the thread.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I am trained to do my own VIP's and know what to look for inside and out.

I didn't know DSAT had a VIP class or certification?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I didn't know DSAT had a VIP class or certification?

Yep.
They covered it in my tec gas blender course and I have my cert card, so that would mean that by their standards I am trained to do VIP's. That was in 2004.

Is there some sort of official government issued VIP certification that I don't know about that has been imposed since then?

If there is then why can anybody buy all the VIP stickers they want from Leisure Pro?

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Yep.
They covered it in my tec gas blender course and I have my cert card, so that would mean that by their standards I am trained to do VIP's. That was in 2004.

Is there some sort of official government issued VIP certification that I don't know about that has been imposed since then?

If there is then why can anybody buy all the VIP stickers they want from Leisure Pro?

No government issued VIP certification, at this point.

You can buy all the stickers you want, that doesn't mean anyone will fill the tanks

Our policy on VIP stickers is that if there is no Inspector Number or Store name, you don't get a fill. Generic stickers MUST be accompanied with the Inspection Paperwork from the Viz. This is due to exactly what you question above. People buy stickers and slap them on tanks. Without anyone accepting liability with the tanks (inspector number or store name), there is nothing to us that shows it was properly done. That doesn't mean the store did it 100% to our standards, but there is liability and accountability if something happens.

You should see some of the tanks we get in.

Here are 2 issues within that last month ( I hope you don't see this as a thread jack, it is NOT meant to be, and I apologize if you do)

- two weeks ago 3 tanks came in that were VIPed at the beginning of the month (13 days prior per the sticker) One of the o-rings was more than half way out of the neck, more than half the circumference of the neck. Just waiting to blow....The valve was on tight, we did a quick viz on the tank. The valve was caked in about as much lube as a a bearing should be, the o-ring was the wrong size, and looked like it was over 4 years old due to the compression marks. Was VIPed by a local guy....We did the VIP for free, courtesy, and told him the issues and recommended his friend come in for some free help on VIPs as we teach the course. We didn't want anyone to get hurt, and it wouldn't take long to coach and correct this. Generic Trident stickers used.

- Yesterday 2 bottles came in with 2 stamp outs(sticker) for the year..the 2 and the 4, the month was June, and the customer claimed they were done this past June. Someone also marked Steel on obvious Aluminum tanks. ANDI Stickers used on the tanks, and he claims a shop in CALI did the VIP. Seemed fishy though

Again, sorry if you feel this is off topic I ramble sometimes

 

[saf1]

Good to see you missed my humor. There are way too many pages in those documents, and all you said was check 29 and 49. The spectrum they cover is huge and I was not about to spend time reading boring material that pertains to other uses. Posting a direct link would have helped. For instance posting DOT's regulations.

Yes I will pay to have my tanks receive their every 5 year visual and hydro from the local testers. I will not pay for anything more though which is the point of the thread.

And you shouldn't pay for what you don't need - I don't disagree and even said as much. I simply said you may want to check if you think compressed cylinders and their requirements are bogus. Thus my choice to not add any direct links. "If" someone was curious then it is simple to go to OSHA's site and search on compressed cylinders, scuba, or even scba and see the results. It would of returned various things such as 29 cfr 1910.101, c6 and c8 phamplets, and 49 cfrs 171 probably - which is hazmat and transportation. Then from there as you mentioned you fall into a ton of various sub sections that may or may not apply.

Sounds like to me I should have just ignored the thread since I added no value.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

No government issued VIP certification, at this point.

You can buy all the stickers you want, that doesn't mean anyone will fill the tanks

Our policy on VIP stickers is that if there is no Inspector Number or Store name, you don't get a fill. Generic stickers MUST be accompanied with the Inspection Paperwork from the Viz. This is due to exactly what you question above. People buy stickers and slap them on tanks. Without anyone accepting liability with the tanks (inspector number or store name), there is nothing to us that shows it was properly done. That doesn't mean the store did it 100% to our standards, but there is liability and accountability if something happens.

You should see some of the tanks we get in.

Here are 2 issues within that last month ( I hope you don't see this as a thread jack, it is NOT meant to be, and I apologize if you do)

- two weeks ago 3 tanks came in that were VIPed at the beginning of the month (13 days prior per the sticker) One of the o-rings was more than half way out of the neck, more than half the circumference of the neck. Just waiting to blow....The valve was on tight, we did a quick viz on the tank. The valve was caked in about as much lube as a a bearing should be, the o-ring was the wrong size, and looked like it was over 4 years old due to the compression marks. Was VIPed by a local guy....We did the VIP for free, courtesy, and told him the issues and recommended his friend come in for some free help on VIPs as we teach the course. We didn't want anyone to get hurt, and it wouldn't take long to coach and correct this. Generic Trident stickers used.

- Yesterday 2 bottles came in with 2 stamp outs(sticker) for the year..the 2 and the 4, the month was June, and the customer claimed they were done this past June. Someone also marked Steel on obvious Aluminum tanks. ANDI Stickers used on the tanks, and he claims a shop in CALI did the VIP. Seemed fishy though

Again, sorry if you feel this is off topic I ramble sometimes

It's not off topic at all, this is good stuff.

My LDS uses generic VIP stickers that they get from Trident which are the same ones Leisure Pro sells.
Yes there can be fraud and I guess each and every shop is entitled to make their own rules as far as what they will fill or not.
I am an absolute fanatic about my tanks being pristine and my LDS and I have an understanding about this; if they ever question any of my VIP's I drain the tanks and we look inside with MY portable light to make them happy. All I've ever heard when they see the inside is "how did you get it so clean?".
After any trips on charters where I bring my own tank I always pull off the valve to see if any water blew in during wet boat fills. It's important to get the smallest corrosion spots removed before they set in and cause a pit.
I normally pull valves every 5 or 6 fills to see what's going on and see how the shop has been taking care of it's compressor. There's one shop in my area who's air tastes like compressor oil. I had to re O2 clean every tank I took there and will never go back. There's another one that has moisture problems more times than not.

I think there are more shops with compressor and bad air problems that there is a problem with me doing my own VIP's.

 

[Peter_C]

I think there are more shops with compressor and bad air problems that there is a problem with me doing my own VIP's.

Hmmm...Every time I have ever gotten rust in a tank it came from a dive shop filling the tank. Either they or a customer dropped the whip in the water (Which I carefully check for now) or their air was wet to begin with. Always make sure to crack the tank before connection. When I first got my tanks only two shops ever filled them. One of them I no longer go to and have not had rust issues since...

After I finish building my trailer, the tank tumbler project begins. One of my friends just tried to whip one of his tanks clean, but it needs to be tumbled (SoCal boat diving is horrid for tanks). Plus a couple HP130 tanks we just bought had rust in them. Vis'ed them on the spot when purchasing them used and got a few bucks off because they had rust in them. I am a firm believer in visuals to determine the condition of the inside of tanks. I would like to get my 10,000 cycles from my tanks. Although I doubt I will do 80,000 dives in my lifetime.