Future aka New Normal

[DownUnderwater Dan]

Indonesia to permit travel to and from Japan, 3 other countries - The Mainichi

Indonesia has been drawing up a plan to allow the resumption of travel to and from four countries...

"Our colleagues at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs are currently designing travel bubbles for four countries -- China, South Korea, Japan and Australia,"...discussions have been ongoing to set up criteria for permitting travel between Indonesia and the four

"After the criteria are made, negotiations will be held with those countries for two, three or four weeks. When agreements are reached, the travel bubbles will be opened," he said, adding that there have been many requests from countries seeking to resume travel on certain routes.

He indicated that the four countries were selected because "their investment has helped Indonesia's economy a lot."

Discussions and plans are already underway for Indonesia & Australia travel bubble...seems like not so far away soon

Indonesia Berencana Buka Travel Bubble ke 4 Negara

A more detailed article. November, December being mentioned for travel bubble opening. But I think much sooner than that

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

I wonder if the governments of Australia, New Zealand and Vietnam would be happy if people visit Indonesia as long as the cases are going up that much here.

Very good point. But I think with the millions of people protesting around the world at present, its completely changing the dynamics of the government's approach to locking people down again. People aren't afraid to be in close proximity with 10's thousands of other people. No overwhelming of hospitals as a result of mass worldwide protests

 

[Indah]

Very good point. But I think with the millions of people protesting around the world at present, its completely changing the dynamics of the government's approach to locking people down again. People aren't afraid to be in close proximity with 10's thousands of other people. No overwhelming of hospitals as a result of mass worldwide protests

Too early to draw that conclusion.

 

[markmud]

@DownUnderwater Dan

I'm not sure what your personal problem is with Indah and I don't care either. Your tone and argumentative attitude, in this thread, at least, is offensive to me.

Indah seems to be dealing with it well and for this I commend Indah.

Hi Chilly,

I went back to find the "offensive" posts that @DownUnderwater Dan wrote. I must have missed it. Dan is actively promoting a message of anti-hysteria. He has cited many sources that are either governmental or MSM.

You may not like his message, and you may not like when he quotes Canadian Government sites or other authoritative sites, but I did not find him to be "argumentative". He is definitely opinionated.

What is a public forum all about? Opinions.

I respect your right to disagree with DownUnder Dan's opinion; I don't respect your castigation of him because you don't appreciate his opinions.

Indah has also been opinionated. But, he has not proved his points well.

Here is the bottom line: If you are high risk for SARS-Cov-2, lock yourself down. If you are fearful, lock yourself down. However, don't stop the rest of us who are healthy, from trying to live our lives and working as best we can.

Indonesia needs to open up slowly and allow their people to communicate with the rest of the world, which includes allowing tourism and other forms of international commerce to occur. Note, I wrote "open up slowly", and may I add at their own pace.

cheers,
m

 

[Indah]

Hi Chilly,

I went back to find the "offensive" posts that @DownUnderwater Dan wrote. I must have missed it. Dan is actively promoting a message of anti-hysteria. He has cited many sources that are either governmental or MSM.

You may not like his message, and you may not like when he quotes Canadian Government sites or other authoritative sites, but I did not find him to be "argumentative". He is definitely opinionated.

What is a public forum all about? Opinions.

I respect your right to disagree with DownUnder Dan's opinion, I don't respect your castigation of him because you don't appreciate his opinions.

Indah has also been opinionated. But, he has not proved his points well.

Here is the bottom line: If you are high risk for SARS-Cov-2, lock yourself down. If you are fearful, lock yourself down. However, don't stop the rest of us who are healthy, from trying to live our lives and working as best we can.

Indonesia needs to open up slowly and allow their people to communicate with the rest of the world, which includes allowing tourism and other forms of international commerce to occur. Note, I wrote "open up slowly", and may I add at their own pace.

cheers,
m

I did not try to prove any points. I did not even know I had them. I thought I took part in an exchange of thoughts about a topic of which we know much more not than we do know.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

Hi Chilly,

I went back to find the "offensive" posts that @DownUnderwater Dan wrote. I must have missed it. Dan is actively promoting a message of anti-hysteria. He has cited many sources that are either governmental or MSM.

You may not like his message, and you may not like when he quotes Canadian Government sites or other authoritative sites, but I did not find him to be "argumentative". He is definitely opinionated.

What is a public forum all about? Opinions.

I respect your right to disagree with DownUnder Dan's opinion; I don't respect your castigation of him because you don't appreciate his opinions.

Indah has also been opinionated. But, he has not proved his points well.

Here is the bottom line: If you are high risk for SARS-Cov-2, lock yourself down. If you are fearful, lock yourself down. However, don't stop the rest of us who are healthy, from trying to live our lives and working as best we can.

Indonesia needs to open up slowly and allow their people to communicate with the rest of the world, which includes allowing tourism and other forms of international commerce to occur. Note, I wrote "open up slowly", and may I add at their own pace.

cheers,
m

Thanks @markmud . You're right, I'm not being offensive & I'm definitely not looking for arguments

I think people are forgetting that this whole thing with covid restrictions is an EXPERIMENT, meaning it's never been done before and everything is based on theory without actually knowing so much in a short period of time about the novel virus. A great big scientific & social experiment.
More & more esteemed scientific reports will be released in the future showing the true facts about the covid-19 virus.
Today I read 2 different scientific reports from John Hopkins University & Oxford University posted yesterday and today, the mortality rate is between 0.3-0.6% & 0.5%-<1%. The American CDC puts the mortality rate at 0.2%
With these mortality rates it doesn't justify the continuance of the covid restrictions EXPERIMENT as the greater mortality rate is only slightly higher than other seasonal illnesses

I don't make these scientific reports up in regards to mortality of covid-19, please check

 

[Indah]

Thanks @markmud . You're right, I'm not being offensive & I'm definitely not looking for arguments

I think people are forgetting that this whole thing with covid restrictions is an EXPERIMENT, meaning it's never been done before and everything is based on theory without actually knowing so much in a short period of time about the novel virus. A great big scientific & social experiment.
More & more esteemed scientific reports will be released in the future showing the true facts about the covid-19 virus.
Today I read 2 different scientific reports from John Hopkins University & Oxford University posted yesterday and today, the mortality rate is between 0.3-0.6% & 0.5%-<1%. The American CDC puts the mortality rate at 0.2%
With these mortality rates it doesn't justify the continuance of the covid restrictions EXPERIMENT as the greater mortality rate is only slightly higher than other seasonal illnesses

I don't make these scientific reports up in regards to mortality of covid-19, please check

In an experiment you control the conditions. We hardly do that. Okay, let's say 0.3%. Indonesia, population 270 million. 60% will be infected until herd immunity (best prognose) as long there is no vaccine. Means 486.000 would die because of Covid. But if the rate of 0.3% is an average, including countries with much better healthcare than Indonesia and comparable countries, this number could be much higher in those poorer countries.

 

[tursiops]

In an experiment you control the conditions. We hardly do that. Okay, let's say 0.3%. Indonesia, population 270 million. 60% will be infected until herd immunity (best prognose) as long there is no vaccine. Means 486.000 would die because of Covid. But if the rate of 0.3% is an average, including countries with much better healthcare than Indonesia and comparable countries, this number could be much higher in those poorer countries.

Good luck, Indah. You are trying to use facts in a discussion with folks who confuse facts with opinions, and cherry pick information to agree with their opinions. It is a losing battle, and not worth fighting. The old saying is, "Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty, and the pig loves it."

 

[Centrals]

In Hong Kong we took the necessary steps way ahead of nearly every country in SE Asia let alone the world. Surgical mask came out in no time at all while rest of the world was still debating the usefulness of it until much much later!!!!

I am still waiting for the first country to accept foreign tourists in SE Asia.

We have about 1100 confirmed cases with 4 dead(0.36%).
This "chinese virus" is very cunning with plenty of surprised tricks up the sleeve !!!!!!

 

[Indah]

In Hong Kong we took the necessary steps way ahead of nearly every country in SE Asia let alone the world. Surgical mask came out in no time at all while rest of the world was still debating the usefulness of it until much much later!!!!

I am still waiting for the first country to accept foreign tourists in SE Asia.

We have about 1100 confirmed cases with 4 dead(0.36%).
This "chinese virus" is very cunning with plenty of surprised tricks up the sleeve !!!!!!

Personally I prefer not to use the name Chinese virus. We do not mention a hurricane after the country where the winds started picking up. Most of the countries which experienced SARS dealt far much better with the outbreak. This article I just read covers much more than the headline promises. Commentary: Why are advanced countries experiencing world’s highest COVID-19 death rates?
Maybe 100% double testing of all travelers can restore some of the international tourism. Although I cannot see yet New Zealand welcoming tourists from Brazil soon. Or Australia being happy with people visiting Bali now.