DIR- GUE Fundies Rec vs Tec rating

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RTodd

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My technical diving predates the existence of the fundamentals course. But, I do have two good examples. My wife took the course purely for a rec pass with maybe 20 dives and had no issues passing the class. My son is too young to formally take fundamentals, but dad dives with several GUE instructors so he has been taught the course and easily acheived what is required for a tec pass. It did take him a few more days than a normal fundamentals course since he had to be introduced to a drysuit and doubles, effectively what are the primers courses for those two things. They both had the advantage of having someone experienced with the system do all of their diving with them.

The main factors that made the passess easy were 1) complete familiarity with the proper kit and always diving that way, and 2) every dive having focused on maintaining proper bouyancy. Both of those items are taught but having a basic familiarity does allow you to focus on the finer details and skills they teach you in the class. If you can dive with experienced divers that know these two things that helps. Don't worry aobut trying to learn anything else. That is what the course is designed to teach. A rec pass doesn't take much, if any, diving experience if you are a relatifvely natural diver. Natural talent level with diving varies which is fine and depending on where a person sits on the spectrum they may need a bit more diving to be comfortable enough in the water and with basic bouyancy to learn what is taught for a rec pass. That is no where near 100 dives. A tech pass benefits from more diving experience, closer to 100+ on average, to allow you to focus a bit more on fine tuning the skills that are taught. But, neither requires you to go practice the skills taught before the class.

But, this is scubaboard advice. Go contact a GUE instructor and get their advice. They have the experience to guide prospective students.
 

PfcAJ

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The rec pass seems preferable for a new diver as it doesn't come with a 6-month time limit to possibly upgrade to tech, like the provisional tech does. Plus you'll be more relaxed and learn more if you're not worried about tech, and more likely to do the class in the gear that you're comfortable with. Instead of jumping to doubles if you're not already in them and becoming stressed out and not learning much.
I’m not sure that’s an accurate description of the possible outcomes of the Fundamentals course. This is my understanding:

Fail - unsafe or unable to meet course standards within 6mo.

Provisional - able to meet rec pass standards within 6mo. Requires reevaluation inside of 6mo window.

Rec Pass - meets rec standards. This can be in “tech” config, but the diver doesn’t meet the “Tech Pass” standard. No time limit to upgrade to Tech Pass.

Tech Pass - meets tech standards, able to progress to next course provided diver has minimum required dives for said course.
 

OrcasC205

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I’m not sure that’s an accurate description of the possible outcomes of the Fundamentals course. This is my understanding:

Fail - unsafe or unable to meet course standards within 6mo.

Provisional - able to meet rec pass standards within 6mo. Requires reevaluation inside of 6mo window.

Rec Pass - meets rec standards. This can be in “tech” config, but the diver doesn’t meet the “Tech Pass” standard. No time limit to upgrade to Tech Pass.

Tech Pass - meets tech standards, able to progress to next course provided diver has minimum required dives for said course.

This is my understanding as well. It should be noted that if you receive a provisional pass in the class and then, within the 6 month time window, get your recreational pass (as I did), you still have unlimited time to meet the tech pass requirements and receive the pass (which is where I am now, 14 months and 140 dives after getting my Rec Pass.)
 

MichaelMc

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I’m not sure that’s an accurate description of the possible outcomes of the Fundamentals course. This is my understanding:

Fail - unsafe or unable to meet course standards within 6mo.

Provisional - able to meet rec pass standards within 6mo. Requires reevaluation inside of 6mo window.

Rec Pass - meets rec standards. This can be in “tech” config, but the diver doesn’t meet the “Tech Pass” standard. No time limit to upgrade to Tech Pass.

Tech Pass - meets tech standards, able to progress to next course provided diver has minimum required dives for said course.
My apologies, my understanding was derived from SB and GUE public data and was: fail < rec < provisional < tech. With: rec always being able to upgrade, and provisional having a 6 mo window to reevaluate for tech.

Was there a provisional tech pass that I was confused with?
 

MichaelMc

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The standards reads as if for any training you can get (1.5.2):
- certification
- provisional rating
- fail

And under Fundamentals, it lists a rec (2.2.3.8 (A)) and a tech (2.2.3.8 (B)) rating. Which suggests:
- rec: fail < provisional rating < certification
- tech: fail < provisional rating < certification

Suggesting in general:
fail
< rec provisional < rec
< tech provisional < tech

I think my confusion was if the provisional in question is a tech provisional, did you also get a rec cert, which does not time out in 6 months? Given the logistical efforts needed to get GUE training if you do not live somewhere GUE heavy.
 

OrcasC205

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I feel like this has been hashed out before in previous SB threads.

In Section 1.3.2 of the GUE Standards, there are three possible outcomes for a GUE Class: Certification; Provisional; and Failure. In GUE Fundamentals, there are two possible Certifications that can be earned: Recreational Level or Technical Level. Both are "Certification" outcomes from the Diver Assessment. If you receive a provisional, the standards say you have 6 month to achieve a certification (either Rec level or Tech level.)

Once you have achieved the Recreational level certification, you can upgrade your certification to the Technical Endorsement at any time by going through a GUE Fundamentals Upgrade workshop/evaluation.
 

MichaelMc

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In Section 1.3.2 of the GUE Standards, there are three possible outcomes for a GUE Class: Certification; Provisional; and Failure. In GUE Fundamentals, there are two possible Certifications that can be earned: Recreational Level or Technical Level. Both are in "Certification" outcomes from the Diver Assessment. If you receive a provisional, the standards say you have 6 month to achieve a certification (either Rec level or Tech level.)
I think that is what I said.
 

MichaelMc

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But is rec pass with tech provisional an outcome?

"In tech gear you did great at the rec standards, but you need a little more practice for the tech cert. So...."

(Either Rec cert or Tech provisional.)
Door # 1: Hold out, practice, let's meet cross country in a few months.
Door # 2: Take home a rec cert today and maybe upgrade later.

(Both)
Door # 3: Take home a rec cert and the chance to convert that tech provisional within 6 months. (and the normal upgrade change after that)

So which will it be Bob, or can I only offer you some of those?
 

OrcasC205

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But is rec pass with tech provisional an outcome?

No, that's not an outcome because if you get a Rec Pass, you have achieved a "certification" outcome and not a provisional. Once you have that Rec Pass, you have as much time as you want/need to upgrade it to a Tech Pass. There is no "rec provisional" and "tech provisional" -- just "provisional" if you don't get a certification outcome.

Edited to add: Taking the class in "tech gear" does not imply that you are going for a Tech Pass -- you can get a Rec Pass in doubles w/ a corded light. And you don't sign up for "Tech Fundamentals" or "Rec Fundamentals" -- it's just Fundamentals whether you are in singles or doubles.
 

MichaelMc

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Edited to add: Taking the class in "tech gear" does not imply that you are going for a Tech Pass -- you can get a Rec Pass in doubles w/ a corded light. And you don't sign up for "Tech Fundamentals" or "Rec Fundamentals" -- it's just Fundamentals whether you are in singles or doubles.
I get that.

So you take Fundamentals in the full tech gear. And you do great to the rec standards. But almost, but not quite, to the tech standards. What is the class outcome?

rec?
tech provisional? And if not converted in 6 months nothing?
 
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