Full cave and Nitrox?

[Divesherpa]

Send a PM prior to next trip and we'll find some good cave.

 

[Aviatrr]

that makes me feel better. I was envisioning people leaving breadcrumbs to the entrance

Bread crumbs? Come on, get real.....we figured out MONTHS ago that the fish were eating the crumbs....now we just use a constant line of whipped cream(so don't eat our guideline!).

who have a sticker on their tank that says "when these are empty I'll just beat you up and steal yours".

Naw, that's just implied....just beware of the people in the cave with knives with 8" blades...when things go bad, it's every diver for themself!

seriously, No, I did not know you were staunch DIR so had no reference, but it makes more sense now.

Those that are very vocal about their DIR preference usually catch hell from everybody else. Then again, there are many there that keep to themselves(well, at least their DIR views) and get along with everybody very well.

It seems they all think of those of us that are free thinkers as weirdos, though.

Mike

 

[izajane]

Aviatrr once bubbled...


Bread crumbs? Come on, get real.....we figured out MONTHS ago that the fish were eating the crumbs....now we just use a constant line of whipped cream(so don't eat our guideline!).



Naw, that's just implied....just beware of the people in the cave with knives with 8" blades...when things go bad, it's every diver for themself!



Those that are very vocal about their DIR preference usually catch hell from everybody else. Then again, there are many there that keep to themselves(well, at least their DIR views) and get along with everybody very well.

It seems they all think of those of us that are free thinkers as weirdos, though.

Mike

LOL!! ut:

 

[chickdiver]

You know, Mike, I happen to take offense at the following statement from your previous post

"It seems they think of those of us that are free thinkers as weirdo's though"

I'll grant you I do think most of the "personal preference" crowd are way off base. But too imply that all of us who subscribe to the DIR philosophy are blind followers is completely inaccurate. As a matter of fact, MOST of us (especially the "old-school" pre GUE divers) found DIR on our own, after a lot of research and experimentation. If that doesn't count as "free thinking" I dont know what would.

The simple fact that you ("you" being the personal preference side of the fence) blindly lump us all into the same category makes you as closed minded and narrowly focused as you seem to think we all are.

 

[Divesherpa]

Hi Chickdiver,

I take offense to being called a weirdo for disagreeing with you over something as simple as diving with my wife.

Cheers

 

[chickdiver]

When did anyone say that you couldn't dive with your wife?

 

[Aviatrr]

You know, Mike, I happen to take offense at the following statement from your previous post

"It seems they think of those of us that are free thinkers as weirdo's though"

I'll grant you I do think most of the "personal preference" crowd are way off base.

My point exactly. Why are we "off base" because we choose to dive the way that we feel is the safest, most efficient way to dive for the given situation?

But too imply that all of us who subscribe to the DIR philosophy are blind followers is completely inaccurate.

Certainly not all....but most. I can't tell you how many times I've had somebody tell me why I should do something a certain way and NOT be able to tell me why.....other than the typical "it's been proven to work" type thing. To me, the fact that there is little to no flexibility in the way you dive and your gear configuration is simply ludicrous. Of the people I know well that subscribe to the DIR philosophy, I can honestly say that most(of those that I know) ARE blind followers.

As a matter of fact, MOST of us (especially the "old-school" pre GUE divers) found DIR on our own, after a lot of research and experimentation. If that doesn't count as "free thinking" I dont know what would.

I don't know you......so I can't comment on you specifically....but it seems to me that there are two types of DIR "believers". The first, and most common, is the type that needs to have everything spelled out for them in black and white and is fairly new to the sport - or is convinced by somebody(such as a friend) early in their diving that DIR is the only safe way. The second type, and the category I presume you fall into, is the type that is moderately to very experienced, and has at some point been a part of the "personal preference" crowd. It seems to me that most of the time this type chooses the DIR philosophy because 1) they have not found a style that works really well for them specifically, and decide to settle on DIR because it is very structured and everything is spelled out for them, or 2) they truly believe that DIR is the ONLY safe, effective way to dive, regardless of the situation.

I don't believe that there is any ONE way to dive. Different situations call for different methods and gear. THAT is why I don't subscribe to the DIR philosophy. Well, that and the fact that many of the DIR followers that preach DIR principles to others really knowing little or nothing about them - just what they "heard" somewhere. THOSE are the people that give DIR a bad name, IMO.

The simple fact that you ("you" being the personal preference side of the fence) blindly lump us all into the same category makes you as closed minded and narrowly focused as you seem to think we all are.

I can definitely be closed minded regarding certain subjects....but I don't believe this is one of them. I have tried a few times to dive with people that are adamantly DIR to see if it is something I could embrace......but the fact that most of them refuse to dive with somebody that is not "DIR", or even just speak intelligently about DIR with others, drives me further away from even the possibility of considering it. When I first got into cave diving, and I asked one of the big, well known GUE instructors to talk to me about DIR and answer some questions.......he told me to go take a DIRF course, then ask the questions. He would not even answer some basic questions. I have since dove with this individual on a few occasions(I guess he's not REALLY DIR if he dives with buddies who are far from it), and I find that he is an excellent diver, but has the attitude to go along with it.

I mean no offense by any of this, and I hope you don't take it that way. After all, this is just a message board. I just like to see people getting opinions from both sides of the fence if they are considering one school of thought or the other.

Mike

 

[chickdiver]

Mike,

I agree with you that people should research gear configurations and be able to spell out why a particular system does or does not work. Obviously I feel that my system is superior to many others out there, and there are good reasons for my opinion.

I also agree with you that the arrogance and attitude that is encountered with many of "my" crowd is excessive. HOWEVER, that works both ways. I, personally, find it offensive in ANYONE, we certainly all have our egos, but it does often get taken too far.

I was a bit "flip" in my statements about Ginnie and "weirdos". I certainly don't think that everyone who doesn't dive the way I do is a weirdo. I may not agree with you on a number of points, but I can respect the fact that you have similar training and/or expereince as I have. What I DO have a problem with (and Ginnie is usually a prime example of this), is the "1 week wonder" cave divers who think that because they completed a full cave course, they now have the expertise to dive anything. Another good example is divers who are just out of full cave using scooters. I imagine you get the drift here, so I wont cite any more examples. I would also imagine that you feel much the same way, most of us who have been at this for any length of time seem to have similar opinions on that subject at least.

Now, here's an offer. If you want to know why we use the system we use, feel free to ask. I will do my best to give you a well thought out, reasonable and supportable arguement. I wont (intentionally) try to convert anyone, but I will answer questions in a civil manner. What I will not do is be drawn into a circular arguement or a P***ing match.

 

[Aviatrr]

Obviously I feel that my system is superior to many others out there, and there are good reasons for my opinion.

I think that most people feel that way....because if somebody is diving a setup that they feel is inferior, they are just asking for trouble. I feel that my configuration is superior based on the type of diving I generally do.

HOWEVER, that works both ways. I, personally, find it offensive in ANYONE, we certainly all have our egos, but it does often get taken too far.

Divers with egos?! No way....that's like military pilots with egos! Yes, there are people from every aspect of diving that have egos that far outweigh their abilities......and I think every one of us is guilty of our ego getting away from us at one point or another.....but, face it, big egos go hand in hand with the type of personality that prevails(and is pretty much required to survive) in this type of diving - or any serious tech diving.

What I DO have a problem with (and Ginnie is usually a prime example of this), is the "1 week wonder" cave divers who think that because they completed a full cave course, they now have the expertise to dive anything. Another good example is divers who are just out of full cave using scooters. I imagine you get the drift here, so I wont cite any more examples. I would also imagine that you feel much the same way, most of us who have been at this for any length of time seem to have similar opinions on that subject at least.

This is something we can definitely agree on. I have seen this type of thing many times. Again, it's the ego thing rearing its ugly head. People allow their ego to justify(at least in their own mind) what they are doing. Unfortunately, they often are not considering all the facts and/or possibilities.

Now, here's an offer. If you want to know why we use the system we use, feel free to ask. I will do my best to give you a well thought out, reasonable and supportable arguement.

Great. Actually, I do have a couple questions.....one of which I have gotten different answers from each person I've asked.

Why is it against the DIR rules(for lack of a better phrase) to carry stages bilaterally? While carrying multiple stages, I carry them on both sides. With this configuration, I can easily carry 4 Al80 stages..and I have carried as many as 6 stages at once.

I remember a while back Duane outlined a DIR sidemount configuration, and I know you had one of those rigs...though I don't know if you used it yourself or sold it for somebody else. Now I don't recall the total description, but one thing that jumped out at me was that wing inflation was strictly oral - no inflator hose attached to the power inflator. Why? Also, IIRC, the procedure was to breathe strictly off of stages(correct me if I'm remembering this wrong) and not the primary bottles.....is this at all times, or just scootering? Why? If you're diving in sidemount passages that are big enough to allow you to carry stages, they would probably be doable backmount.

Mike

 

[Divesherpa]

Hi Chickdiver,
I finally know who you are. It was a mystery before now