FTC Followup - OK Dive shops, who's upset?

[Aquamaniac]

This arguement has been going on for too long, and I really dont want to get into it, but I have to point out the following.

If the local dive stores dont like the manufacturers agreements or the manufacturers dont like what LP and DI are doing, let them all sort it out, ScubaPro dont HAVE to sell to DI or LP and conversly LD stores dont have to sell at MSRP. Its all choice, thats the US economy.

Nothing is stopping Mikes scuba store in NY from selling at the same price as LP, Im sure of that. If he cant, then HE needs to sort it out with HIS suppliers.

As a consumer I now have a broader range of options from this situation, hence I have NO complaints.

Im aslo sure that many of the LDS owners know the law, and have all the facts. Its there choice to keep the situation the way it is. Am I correct here Mike Ferrara?

Why do they need a left wing extremist to come in and hold up the plaquard for them?

Dave

 

[Genesis]

free markets without coercion and restraint of trade are a conservative hallmark and the antithesis of the political left.

 

[wch]

Aquamaniac once bubbled...
This arguement has been going on for too long,

True, we are beating what seems to be a dead horse, but it is a constant source of frustration as long as you are buying gear.

Aquamaniac once bubbled... ScubaPro dont HAVE to sell to DI or LP and conversly LD stores dont have to sell at MSRP. Its all choice, thats the US economy. Dave [/B]

As I said before, according to my LDS they are not allowed to go below a 10% mark down off of MSRP. They say they will lose their dealer status if they do.

Bill

 

[Aquamaniac]

wch once bubbled...

As I said before, according to my LDS they are not allowed to go below a 10% mark down off of MSRP. They say they will lose their dealer status if they do.

Bill

Thats my point, you cant have your cake AND eat it.

Wanna lower prices? Then you got to lose the status.

No differant to the auto industry.

There is no gun held to the head.

Dave

 

[wch]

Aquamaniac once bubbled...


Thats my point, you cant have your cake AND eat it.

Wanna lower prices? Then you got to lose the status.

No differant to the auto industry.

There is no gun held to the head.

Dave

I don't get it. Why is it necessary that my LDS can't charge what ever price they want and still maintain their status? Obviously SP doesn't care what DiveInn charges and they maintain their status, why not US dealers?

I know this is old stuff, but I have never seen/read an justification for it.

And yes a "gun" is held to their head in the fact that to give up their dealer status they will need to go grey market like LP, and not be able to order directly from SP. You get the SP warranty from DI but not from LP.

Bill

Don't you love all the acronyms, DI, LP, SP, and I know I spout some BS too

 

[Genesis]

If you want to sell in Europe, you simply don't pull vertical price restraints. Ever. At all.

The US will too, if enough people raise a stink.

So, folks, both consumer and dive shop - do you choose to sit back and let it happen or to raise a stink?

 

[jeffsterinsf]

wch once bubbled...


I don't get it. Why is it necessary that my LDS can't charge what ever price they want and still maintain their status? Obviously SP doesn't care what DiveInn charges and they maintain their status, why not US dealers?
...

Different laws in the European Union than here in the US. The policy is more clearly illegal in the CE than it is here.

 

[Aquamaniac]

Dont get me wrong here, Im not saying its right!!!!!


All Im saying is that if they dont like it, there are options.

1. Call some people (like Genesis has)
2. Go "greymarket"
2. Do something else.

I have options as to where I buy my stuff, so do the stores.

Dave
I hate acronyms too

GTG, TTFN

 

[MikeFerrara]

Aquamaniac once bubbled...
Dont get me wrong here, Im not saying its right!!!!!


All Im saying is that if they dont like it, there are options.

1. Call some people (like Genesis has)
2. Go "greymarket"
2. Do something else.

I have options as to where I buy my stuff, so do the stores.

Dave
I hate acronyms too

GTG, TTFN

We do, do something else. The dive shop will never feed me. My wife is there all day while I am somewhere that provides a pay check.

We certainly thought of going grey market because it is the only way I see to get out from under. However, the insurance company says "NO WAY" If I service or sell a reg for which I am not authorized (by the manufacturer), I am on my own. I'm too small to take that kind of risk.

We have been trying the lower the prices game to increase volume. One of the biggest problems is that we are restricted to so few brands. That alone is enough to limit our volume. The big manufacturers do their best to force you to sell their stuff exclusively. Their primary tool in this is minimum anual sales requirements and minimum opening order sizes. But then there is the rep who visits and tells you how they want you to do business. Of course they can't make you do anything but they can refuse to sell to you. I have even had reps tell me how I should teach in a way that would sell more of their crap.

Rather than invest millions to short-cut the industry leaders we are focussing training. If a manufacturer wants me to rep his gear he will need to kiss my ars (and have good gear). In the meantime you folks can buy on the net. I will leave it to you to use your dollars to tell the manufacturer what you want. That is far more powerful than anything I can do. As long as the manufacturer has enough sales they don't care what I say or do.

If there is a way to turn this around, from where I sit, I haven't found it and am open to suggestions.
The criteria is that I must be able to keep my insurance valid. For now that means that I must buy from the manufacturer or at least be a manufacturer authorized dealer and I can only service those same brands.

 

[MikeFerrara]

For many years the manufacturer has relied on the knowlege (or the consumers perception of) of the LDS to sell gear. Now there are other sources. Also we are expected to give away knowlege to sell gear. My knowlege and what I do with it is the one thing that only I control. I will no longer use it to generate profits for the manufacturer and nothing for myself. If we have something to offer a diver they will pay for it. If not, then there is no reason for us to waist business time together.

The bottom line is that the manufacturer will not have the free benifit of our expertise or reputation. We will also do our best not to do free field sales work for the online folks.

This is how we attempt to steer the manufacturer. We are tired of them telling us what a good bc is and how to teach that to our students.