Frequency of advanced divers practicing CESAs ? [Poll]

[TMHeimer]

In reference to the fact that OOG divers too often die during an OOG response because they apparently hold their breath while doing a panicked ascent, I wrote "What it apparently does require is enough confidence to believe that it will work."

You quoted that sentence and disagreed, apparently believing that an OOG diver does not have to have enough confidence to believe it will work. You supported your disagreement by saying that teaching CESAs is hard on an instructor, it is not good for students to see instructors teaching CESAs, and the skill can be taught horizontally.

I realize I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I am having trouble seeing how those points demonstrate that an OOG diver does not need to have the confidence that doing the CESA will bring him or her to the surface alive.

I agree with you that having the confidence that doing a CESA will bring you to the surface alive is important. That may be another reason why I practice it.

KenGordon, And what if the two failures do manage to happen? Your answer is you drown?
In my case solo, one failure, since I don't carry my pony for a 30' dive.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I tend to only do CESA's vertically when teaching open water classes and only practice them when demonstrating or performing the skill with students. I like to do CESA's from the 15 foot stop as if divers find themselves running out of gas while attempting a safety stop.

I practice horizontal OOG swims in tech classes. The distance varies according to class standards, but 50 feet is the maximum distance I usually employ to build confidence yet prove the point that swimming to get gas sucks.

When I learned to dive, PDIC's open water training demanded that any time we removed the regulator from the mouth we would make a humming sound to create an automatic behavioral response which eventually was employed during the emergency ascent. We didn't do reg in ascents because of the risk of inhaling air while traveling too fast resulting in a lung overexpansion injury.

1) Remove reg and begin to hum
2) Remove and ditch weight system
3) Look toward the surface and swim up while continuing to hum
4) Flare out around 30 feet and drift up as slowly as your momentum allows

 

[KenGordon]

I agree with you that having the confidence that doing a CESA will bring you to the surface alive is important. That may be another reason why I practice it.

KenGordon, And what if the two failures do manage to happen? Your answer is you drown?
In my case solo, one failure, since I don't carry my pony for a 30' dive.

My answer is still drowning. For your solo dive you ought to take a pony but you have decided to take the risk of drowning or a barotrauma. That is up to you but don’t be selling the fantasy that a direct ascent without gas is a solution.

 

[Preach]

The cesa is learned in OW classes. Beginners that just start diving mostly stay very shallow. On top of that they don't have redundant gear (1 tank, 1 first stage). Also the chance they dive with other beginners with not the best situational/buddy awareness is high and they are not very good with gas planning yet. The cesa makes sense in this situation.
But since the question is mostly for advanced divers the situation changes a lot. An advanced diver should be able to make adequate gas planning, also the situational/buddy awareness should be a lot higher. If you dive with redundant gear and decent buddy's the cesa becomes useless.
Try doing a cesa when only 5 feet below the surface in a cave, you wont survive. Or when diving on a wreck 200 feet down.

You should plan so, that you never even come close to having to use something like a cesa.

 

[rhwestfall]

In 30 years, I have done 3 that were practice. First was part of my YMCA OW cert (horizontal), second was a few years later where a DM and I went over some skills (vertical from 30'), and the third was part of a NAU MSD (about 20'). No plans do intentionally do one as practice again....

And, in all this time, I have never needed to actually do one....

 

[lowviz]

KenGordon, And what if the two failures do manage to happen? Your answer is you drown?
In my case solo, one failure, since I don't carry my pony for a 30' dive.

I feel the need to respond.

I once held the very same view. My PSD instructor put that soundly to rest with a simple exercise. I was face down in two feet of water. Fin as hard as possible for 30 seconds and then go to your backup secondary.

I would suggest that you try this drill.

 

[The Chairman]

I guess there could be a concern for DCS going up & down a lot, even from 20-30'.

According to DAN, active instructors have the highest incidence of DCS among divers.

Maybe if they understand the concequences of allowing this to happen they will be more diligent.

Ken, if they were given the power of control in their classes, then neither would happen. It's not hard, but instructors have to make a commitment to turn out divers who are in control of their depth with a modicum of situational and buddy awareness.

 

[J-Vo]

Beginners that just start diving mostly stay very shallow.

Last weekend I went for some dives in our locally training area. Being we are at the edge of "diveable" weather here, it was packed. One shop must have had 20 students at the site. Every student I spoke with was planning to go on a shop trip to Cozumel in February. I would be willing to bet that for most of those students, their very first dive out of OW will be >80'. Maybe even >100'.

 

[Kharon]

Something I don't understand about gas planning. I know how to do it, but, if you are keeping track of your air and you are getting low earlier than expected (in other words, plan blown) don't you abandon the plan and head for the exit? To my way of thinking, gas monitoring trumps (sorry, no other word quite fits) gas planning.

 

[boulderjohn]

We didn't do reg in ascents because of the risk of inhaling air while traveling too fast resulting in a lung overexpansion injury.

First of all, if your lungs are full enough to cause a lung expansion injury, you cannot inhale. If you have the ability to inhale while ascending, it is safe to do so.

Next, a UHMS study of dive fatalities a couple of decades ago identified the CESA as the number one cause of instruction-related injuries, and the removal of the regulator was the primary reason for it. When the students inhaled, the got water, and that began the drowning process.

Finally, as I pointed out earlier, as you ascend to shallower depths and lesser ambient pressures, the regulator will once again be able to give you air. That will only happen, though, if the regulator is in the mouth.