Fourth Diver this year dies at Gilboa

[divingjd]

FWIW, I was there Sunday morning and surfaced from a dive as the rescue was starting. The viz was very good at that time.

I was part of the relay team (which must have been about 8 divers) that was organized to tow her to the dock and I do not know anything that was not in the news reports, so I can't comment on possible causes of the incident.

Lots of people joined the well-organized rescue effort, including Mike. The first responders on site did a great job of responding quickly, administering CPR, notifying emergency services, and controlling the scene. The emergency services responded very promptly. Emergency vehicles and a helicopter arrived in a matter of minutes. As much as possible was done to help.

My sympathies go out to her family and friends.

 

[Hank49]

But that's what your proposed quarry divers would have to do, since it is of course as you say, "not realisitic" to expect buoyancy control.

Most educators would see a benefit in teaching a diver the basic skills with which they could use in all environments, I hope.

Don't get me wrong, I once watched a BSAC diver leap from coral head to coral head in Cuba a few years ago, so I understand vis isn't the issue there.

I'm not arguing against the pursuit of high quality training. My "realistic" statement pointed to the fact that I just don't believe it will ever happen to the industry as a whole. No matter how strict training standards become, poor divers will still "slip through the cracks". It's just human nature to beat the system through cheaper or easier means where ever there are rules and regulations. And of course, where money is involved.

 

[Steve R]

I agree, with the current agencies mindsets, we'll never have anything even close to "diver training" for even something as basic as buoyancy.

So much for "mastery". lol.

The only thing I am left to conclude as realisitic is too keep watching them kill people for money. You can't really learn what you instructor wasn't ever expected to know.

That's all they're really doing anyway. It's criminal.

I'm good with that if you are, honestly, because I've washed my hands of the bull****, and now I just point it out as I see it for no other reason than to publically shame them, which is like a three-man, full-time job some days.

I'm glad Mike's here, he's usually pulling double-shifts..... lol.

 

[rjchandler]

{SNIP} Like a big net, that you can't get tangled in,

No such thing

 

[MikeFerrara]

The problem is they're raining in from everywhere, to the point where it's hardly worth going anymore. I can get zero vis with an e-coli-twist at a quarry closer to us and not spend near as much to get there.

I'm not sure that in the last 4-5 years that I've ever been there on a weekend where I didn't see the meat wagon show up for some train-wreck.

That's where I'm at with diving now. We haven't seen the "meat wagon" show up on every trip but it sure seemed that way sometimes. I really like diving fresh water and I don't like to travel. Ocean fish look stupid and coral is gaudy but I grew up fishing for and interested in fresh water fish. But...I don't need to buy a tank of gas, drive a couple of hours and pay a bunch of money to get silted out, maybe have to perform another rescue, direct traffic for an ambulance or watch people scream in agony. Going to work is a lot more fun.

I have other places to dive...there are some lakes and rivers around and the Missouri caves are only a days drive away. Those places are quiet and enjoyable but I had to sell my compressor a while back so they can be really inconvenient.

Until I get another compressor, there just isn't much diving worth messing with. "The industry" has made such a mess of things that if I can't dive where they aren't, there is little sense in diving.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The only thing I am left to conclude as realisitic is too keep watching them kill people for money. You can't really learn what you instructor wasn't ever expected to know.

They aren't killing people. they are selling people on the idea of paying for the priviliage of killing themselves.

That's all they're really doing anyway. It's criminal.

It's only criminal if a law is being broken.

I'm good with that if you are, honestly, because I've washed my hands of the bull****, and now I just point it out as I see it for no other reason than to publically shame them, which is like a three-man, full-time job some days.

I'm glad Mike's here, he's usually pulling double-shifts..... lol.

It isn't possible to shame them because they don't get it and they will never realize any shame. I've washed my hands of the dive industry nonsense too but I keep pointing thios stuff out because there are those who do listen, think and modify their actions to their benefit.

 

[tstormdiver]

I have been to both Gilboa and Portage. Gilboa gets LOTS more traffic that Portage. In fact Gilboa gets more visitors on any given day than any other quarry I've visited (Haigh, White Star, Blue Springs, Mermet, Joe's Quarry in LaGrange, Fantasy Lake, Lake Rawlings) none of them even come close to the number of people who are at Gilboa most weekends.

Just curious, how many divers does Gilboa generally have? I have been diving Pennyroyal on the weekends for 2 yrs now & have seen that quarry have anything from only a few divers to 80- 100 on any given weekend day. I haven't dove Pennyroyal on the week days, so I'm not sure what the numbers are during those times. Penny royal seems to be very similar to Gilboa. Both quarries go from a few feet to 120' or better. Looks like Gilboa may be a couple of degrees cooler than Pennyroyal below the bottom thermocline (Pennyroyal- 42 degrees, Gilboa- 40degrees).

 

[scubapolly]

Just curious, how many divers does Gilboa generally have?

I've been there when there has been as many as 500. I'd say an average weekend day is probably close to 200 hundred.

On the video they have what their yearly visitors is, I want to say it is 20,000 anybody that has seen the video have a better memory.

 

[Steve R]

HI Mike.

So if it's not criminal, could I say highly immoral?

Either way my fix for them is about the same thing

They aren't killing people. they are selling people on the idea of paying for the priviliage of killing themselves.

I might call it assisted suicide instead. Would that work for you?

Either way they're dieing quite needlessly.

I still need to believe that someone down/up there will end up having so much shame at what they're doing they'll do a 180 and fix something.

I know I'm on crack for thinking that, but it's the eternal optimist in me.

Forgive me.

That's where I'm at with diving now. We haven't seen the "meat wagon" show up on every trip but it sure seemed that way sometimes. I really like diving fresh water and I don't like to travel. Ocean fish look stupid and coral is gaudy but I grew up fishing for and interested in fresh water fish. But...I don't need to buy a tank of gas, drive a couple of hours and pay a bunch of money to get silted out, maybe have to perform another rescue, direct traffic for an ambulance or watch people scream in agony.....

You know the sad thing Mike? This stuff doesn't even phase me anymore.

The last time I was there, some guy came up gasping and spitting and heaving, he sounded like he was going to die on the spot. I turned around (We were all on the surface here maybe 20-30ft from this guy). I saw two other guys with him obviously attending to him well enough, and I just turned back around to my student at the time, and just kept right on yammering and preparing for our dive. I have no friggin clue what was going on, and what's more I didn't even care to know. Talk about seeing it way too often.

 

[tstormdiver]

I've been there when there has been as many as 500. I'd say an average weekend day is probably close to 200 hundred.

On the video they have what their yearly visitors is, I want to say it is 20,000 anybody that has seen the video have a better memory.

Wow!:11: Who would have thunk? & I thought 80 divers was a lot at Pennyroyal. Thanks for setting me straight.