Four dead in Italian cave

[MarkHerm]

Some more info here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ng-scuba-dive-at-popular-Italian-resort.html#

According to this they chose a wrong tunnel for the exit. Obviously this dive is not meant for OW divers following a dive master... Very sad!

 

[Garth]

This cave may not be for dive masters... Maybe just cave divers...


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[beaverdivers]

Why is it the " guide " almost always survives in these cases?

 

[wtcreaux]

Why is it the " guide " almost always survives in these cases?

According to the UK article listed above, the guide died also......

 

[Quero]

The guide didn't survive, from what I've read. (Yes, I can read Italian fairly fluently.)
The guide was a British national living in Italy. His name was Douglas Rizzo. He worked for a shop called Pesciolino Sub. There is reportedly some evidence of a cave in, though whether this blocked a passage or simply silted out the whole area isn't reported. The harbormaster, Andrea Agostinelli has stated that there were 8 divers in total, including dive staff, and that all eight had dive lights. When the silt-out took place, the four at the back of the line were able to find their way out of the cave while those at the front presumably became disoriented and went the wrong way. (BTW, Agostinelli used the word "line" in Italian, but I don't believe he meant an actual cave line--I think he meant simply that the divers were in single file. For those of you who read Italian: "I sub della coda della cordata sono riusciti a risalire prima che fosse troppo tardi...")

 

[DandyDon]

This cave may not be for dive masters... Maybe just cave divers...

I think that is true for all caves, by US standards anyway. They may get away with DMs leading in caves there usually, but among other failures in this accident - the DM had no line in case of a silt out, one of the reasons for the deaths. Cave diving standards work better. It sounds like the DM was leading on memory.

Excerpting from the last article linked, quoting the dive Op owner...

Mr Navarra said the group was correctly equipped and carried torches. "Unfortunately there was not one, but an incredible series of negative circumstances. Now we are all shocked and saddened."

Yeah, starting with going in the cave without training. As far as "correctly equipped" - not without a line.

In the Tulum area of Mexico, they do take OW divers in caverns, and some of the experiences are even more than that, but the guides are full cave certified, with lines, groups of no more than 4 OW, and mostly a good record.

 

[tstormdiver]

I think that is true for all caves, by US standards anyway. They may get away with DMs leading in caves there usually, but among other failures in this accident - the DM had no line in case of a silt out, one of the reasons for the deaths. Cave diving standards work better. It sounds like the DM was leading on memory.

Excerpting from the last article linked, quoting the dive Op owner...

Yeah, starting with going in the cave without training. As far as "correctly equipped" - not without a line.

In the Tulum area of Mexico, they do take OW divers in caverns, and some of the experiences are even more than that, but the guides are full cave certified, with lines, groups of no more than 4 OW, and mostly a good record.

Even though the Mexico Cenote dives have decent track record so far, I wonder,... US Cave Diver Instructor standards only allows 3 students per instructor. Wouldn't a cave(rn) instructor be a better bet than a guide who is full cave & a Dive Master or higher? A cave(rn) instructor is trained to deal with new divers in the environment. Would a full cave diver/ Dive Master guide know how to deal with such problems? Not saying yea or Nay,... I just don't know.

 

[Quero]

Here are some more details: There were two dive staff on this trip--the guide who died in the cave, Douglas Rizzo, and the owner of the dive shop Pesciolino Sub, Roberto Navarra. When they entered the grotto, the guides each took half of the group. Navarra managed to get his group back to safety after the silt-out, delivered them to the dinghy, and went back down to try to find the others. He found only the body of one of the divers before he was too low on air to continue. At this point rescue procedures had already been put into place, and so because Navarra returned to the dinghy with the news of the first body, the initial news reports out of Salerno were that three divers were missing, one dead. Eventually professional PSD divers were able to recover all four bodies.
http://www.newnotizie.it/2012/07/tragedia-in-mare-a-palinuro-morti-4-sub/
Additionally, investigation today of the cave structure seems to have ruled out a collapse, and other details have discarded the hypothesis of poisoning by toxic hydrogen sulfide gas, which is prevalent in these caves. The medical examiner has ruled the cause of death of all four to be drowning, and autopsies will not be carried out.

 

[Thalassamania]

Hydrogen sulfide, even in a fully saturated aqueous solution, poses no danger to divers, despite rumors to the contrary. It is, however, hell on the metal parts of gear.

 

[DandyDon]

Hydrogen sulfide, even in a fully saturated aqueous solution, poses no danger to divers, despite rumors to the contrary. Is is, however, hell the metal parts of gear.

I think there were some references to it in the air pockets in the caves. Some youtube vids show cavers breathing from such in some locales.