Former Bathyscaph Trieste II Crew Member/Diver/Photographer

[Akimbo]

Explanation on the AVGAS, please.

Sorry, AViation GASoline. It was used as a nearly incompressible buoyancy material. The one-atmosphere crew sphere was around 6' in diameter and made from high-yield steel that varied between about 4 and 6" thick (as memory serves)... so would sink like a rock. The working depth was 20,000'.

Sea water averages 64.1 Lbs/Ft³. Av-Gas is 45 Lbs/Ft³. That means you need 7½ gallons for about 19 Lbs of buoyancy. The T-2 required 67,000 gallons of AvGas.

Blocks of Syntactic foam is used for buoyancy and hulls for really deep submersibles are Titanium today. This is how it is done now: Deepsea Challenger - Wikipedia

 

[Dan DeVoe]

Welcome to Scubaboard!

I can't help in regards to AVGAS, but just wanted to let you know that the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute & the bathyspheres/submersibles like Alvin inspired me so much! I ended up at the Acadia Institute of Oceanography one summer when I was young because of Woods Hole.

Hope you get back into diving more now that you're son is older.

Happy diving!

Thanks NYCNaiad! I had an offer to join WHOI as a Pilot-in-Training, but decided to go to college. At that time, I was looking to normalize rather than they seafarer lifestyle.

 

[Akimbo]

I know this is an old thread but I just ran across this article:

Higher cancer rates found in military pilots, ground crews

It's hard to imagine anyone getting higher exposure to Avgas than Navy purple shirts (carrier deck crew responsible for refueling) due to very rapid turn-around and relatively small fuel loads compared to commercial aircraft.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

While it is an old thread, this is a topic that should be discussed more. The divers on Trieste II would have had exposure through respiration (vapors from the aviation gasoline), and topical (skin) exposures by swimming through aviation gasoline that leaked from the Trieste. Here are a couple of sites to explore.

Several of these articles discussed the possibility of exposure to lead through leaded aviation gasoline:

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

The second is this 1988 letter that was published about aviation gasoline:

Toxicology Letters​

Volume 44, Issues 1–2, November 1988, Pages 13-19

Aviation gasoline: comparative subchronic nephrotoxicity study in the male rat​

Author links open overlay panelM. Gérin 1, C. Viau 1, D. Talbot 1, E. Greselin 2
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Abstract​

Biochemical and histopathologic parameters of nephrotoxicity were measured in groups of male Fischer-344 rats after a 2-week, 5-days-a-week schedule of oral administration (0.5 ml/kg) of the following substances: aviation gasoline (grade 100) (AVG), automobile regular unleaded gasoline (ULG) and 2,2,4-trimethylpentane (TMP). Results of renal histopathologic examinations and biochemical parameters were compatible with the following order of increasing nephrotoxicity: ULG < TMP < AVG. The high nephrotoxic potential of aviation gasoline may be related to its elevated content in branched hydrocarbons.

Aviation gasoline: comparative subchronic nephrotoxicity study in the male rat

Biochemical and histopathologic parameters of nephrotoxicity were measured in groups of male Fischer-344 rats after a 2-week, 5-days-a-week schedule o…

www.sciencedirect.com

My thoughts are that aviation gasoline probably also contained significant amounts of benzene. Here's the NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards overview on Benzene:

Overview​

CAS No. 71-43-2

Benzene (C6H6) is a highly flammable, colorless liquid that evaporates quickly into the air. It is harmful to the eyes, skin, airway, nervous system, and lungs. Benzene can cause blood cancers like leukemia. Workers may be harmed from exposure to benzene. The level of exposure depends upon the dose, duration, and work being done

Benzene is found in products that are made from coal and petroleum. Lubricants, plastics, rubbers, dyes, and other chemicals can be produced with benzene. Some examples of workers at risk of benzene exposure include the following:

• Factory workers where steel or rubber is made or processed
• Workers in the printing industry or who work around printing inks
• Fire fighters who come in contact with toxic smoke
• Workers in gas stations, shoe making or repair, and who work in laboratories

NIOSH recommends that employers use Hierarchy of Controls to prevent injuries. If you work in an industry that uses benzene, please read chemical labels and the accompanying Safety Data Sheet for hazard information. Visit NIOSH’s page on Managing Chemical Safety in the Workplace to learn more about controlling chemical workplace exposures.

The following resources provide information about occupational exposure to benzene. Useful search terms for benzene include “benzol” and “phenyl hydride.”

Here is another NIOSH publication on benzene:

CDC - Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health Concentrations (IDLH): Benzene - NIOSH Publications and Products

www.cdc.gov

This abstract talks about how much tetraethyl lead was is aviation gasoline.

RETURN TO ISSUEPREVARTICLENEXT

Application of the Advanced Distillation Curve Method to the Development of Unleaded Aviation Gasoline​

• Bret C. Windom
• ,
• Tara M. Lovestead
• , and
• Thomas J. Bruno*

View Author Information
Cite this: Energy Fuels 2010, 24, 5, 3275–3284
Publication Date:April 2, 2010
https://doi.org/10.1021/ef100178e
Copyright © This article not subject to U.S. Copyright. Published 2010 by the American Chemical Society
RIGHTS & PERMISSIONS

Abstract​

The primary fuel used within the general aviation industry is a petroleum-based gasoline blended with small amounts of tetraethyl lead (a lead-based additive used to increase the octane number of gasoline without affecting its performance) called 100LL aviation gasoline. Lately, concern has mounted regarding the health effects of leaded aviation gasoline (typically called avgas). This concern, in addition to the increasing price of 100LL, has led to research involved with developing an unleaded avgas with the ability to meet performance regulations and safely operate the entire general aviation fleet without engine modifications. In this paper, we assess the vapor liquid equilibrium of two newly developed unleaded avgas fluids...

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/ef100178e

Bare with me, as here is one more article on benzene is avgas:

Benzene and naphthalene in air and breath as indicators of exposure to jet fuel
FREE

1. P P Egeghy1,
2. L Hauf-Cabalo1,
3. R Gibson2,
4. S M Rappaport1
5. Correspondence to:
 Prof. S M Rappaport
 Department of Environmental Sciences and Engineering, School of Public Health, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, North Carolina 27599-7431, USA; smrunc.edu

Abstract​

Aims: To estimate exposures to benzene and naphthalene among military personnel working with jet fuel (JP-8) and to determine whether naphthalene might serve as a surrogate for JP-8 in studies of health effects.
Methods: Benzene and naphthalene were measured in air and breath of 326 personnel in the US Air Force, who had been assigned a priori into low, moderate, and high exposure categories for JP-8.
Results: Median air concentrations for persons in the low, moderate, and high exposure categories were 3.1, 7.4, and 252 µg benzene/m3 air, 4.6, 9.0, and 11.4 µg benzene/m3 breath, 1.9, 10.3, and 485 µg naphthalene/m3 air, and 0.73, 0.93, and 1.83 µg naphthalene/m3 breath, respectively. In the moderate and high exposure categories, 5% and 15% of the benzene air concentrations, respectively, were above the 2002 threshold limit value (TLV) of 1.6 mg/m3. Multiple regression analyses of air and breath levels revealed prominent background sources of benzene exposure, including cigarette smoke. However, naphthalene exposure was not unduly influenced by sources other than JP-8. Among heavily exposed workers, dermal contact with JP-8 contributed to air and breath concentrations along with several physical and environmental factors.
Conclusions: Personnel having regular contact with JP-8 are occasionally exposed to benzene at levels above the current TLV. Among heavily exposed workers, uptake of JP-8 components occurs via both inhalation and dermal contact. Naphthalene in air and breath can serve as useful measures of exposure to JP-8 and uptake of fuel components in the body.

Benzene and naphthalene in air and breath as indicators of exposure to jet fuel | Occupational & Environmental Medicine

To me this means that the divers in the water with Trieste II could have received significant exposures to both benzene and tetraethyl lead. Both have detrimental health effects, including cancer and kidney problems.

SeaRat
John C. Ratliff, CSP(Retired), CIH(2006-2017),* MSPH
Phone: (503) 707-2568
*CSP = Certified Safety Professional; CIH = Certified Industrial Hygienist

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Here is the last part of my post that wasn't allowed because I had too many characters:

Here is the NIOSH Pocket Guide for Chemical Hazards writeup (in part) on Tetraethyl Lead:

TETRAETHYL LEAD​

Print

OSHA comments from the January 19, 1989 Final Rule on Air Contaminants Project extracted from 54FR2332 et. seq. This rule was remanded by the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and the limits are not currently in force.
CAS: 78-00-2; Chemical Formula: (C2H5)4Pb
OSHA’s current 8-hour limit for tetraethyl lead is 0.075 mg/m3, measured as lead, with a skin notation; NIOSH has no REL for this substance. The ACGIH is now recommending that worker exposures to TEL not exceed 0.1 mg/m3 TWA; the ACGIH also recommends a skin notation. Tetraethyl lead is a colorless liquid, which may be dyed red, orange, or blue, and has a slightly musty odor.
The previous TLV of 0.075 mg/m3 was based almost exclusively on a personal communication from the Medical Department of the Ethyl Corporation, which stated that a level of 0.075 mg/m3 “is a good guideline for an allowable air concentration of TEL” (ACGIH 1966/Ex. 1-13). The ACGIH documentation for the 0.075 mg/m3 TLV also pointed out that the ability of tetraethyl lead to penetrate the skin “makes reliance on the airborne concentration impractical in many situations,” and that urinary lead levels are a more reliable indicator of exposure than blood lead levels (ACGIH 1966/Ex. 1-13).

Benzene and naphthalene in air and breath as indicators of exposure to jet fuel | Occupational & Environmental Medicine

Again, this shows that tetraethyl lead can penetrate the skin, so that a diver swimming in seawater contaminated with tetraethyl lead in avgas would receive an exposure by absorption through the skin, whether breathing off a scuba or not.

SeaRat
John C. Ratliff, CSP(Retired), CIH(2006-2017),* MSPH
Phone: (503) 707-2568
*CSP = Certified Safety Professional; CIH = Certified Industrial Hygienist

 

[lowwall]

I know this is an old thread but I just ran across this article:

Higher cancer rates found in military pilots, ground crews

"the Pentagon found that air crew members had an 87% higher rate of melanoma"

I think we all know the real reason for this:

 

[lowwall]

Sorry, AViation GASoline. It was used as a nearly incompressible buoyancy material. The one-atmosphere crew sphere was around 6' in diameter and made from high-yield steel that varied between about 4 and 6" thick (as memory serves)... so would sink like a rock. The working depth was 20,000'.

Sea water averages 64.1 Lbs/Ft³. Av-Gas is 45 Lbs/Ft³. That means you need 7½ gallons for about 19 Lbs of buoyancy. The T-2 required 67,000 gallons of AvGas.

Blocks of Syntactic foam is used for buoyancy and hulls for really deep submersibles are Titanium today. This is how it is done now: Deepsea Challenger - Wikipedia

I hadn't realized that most of the volume of Trieste was gas tanks.

image source is Wikimedia

And this was the still the era of the high octane aviation gas developed for WWII aviation engines which was achieved primarily by increasing tetraethyl lead levels. Very nasty stuff.

 

[OTF]

Stupid question but is this about diving in (very heavy?) spillage on the ocean surface or actually diving INSIDE the flotation tank for some reason?

Fascinating history. I hope those with health problems find answers. If it's any consolation your work was a huge contribution to ocean exploration.

 

[Akimbo]

I hadn't realized that most of the volume of Trieste was gas tanks.

That diagram is of the Trieste I, though the operating concept is the same. The Trieste II (rev 2) held 67,000 gallons or 253,622 Liters of aviation gasoline for buoyancy and operated from 1966 to 1980. Here is an image of the TII aboard the White Sands:

You might find this thread interesting, which goes into more detail on bathyscaphs.
Manned deep submersibles, a brief history

Stupid question but is this about diving in (very heavy?) spillage on the ocean surface or actually diving INSIDE the flotation tank for some reason?

Stupid questions are the ones that people are afraid to ask. Scuba divers were outside the tanks performing repairs and predive checks. The only access to each tank was through small obround bolted flanges near the bottom of each tank, so she had to be degassed and on deck. It took a LOT of ventilating and testing air samples before anyone would be cleared to get into any of the tanks.

A film of thin film of Avgas could be seen floating around the TII due to inevitable leakage, but it didn't smell nearly as bad as on a carrier deck. That Avgas film was enough to destroy wetsuits pretty quickly. We got special permission to use single hose regulators from EDU/ SUPSALV (Supervisor of Salvage). Avgas would turn courigaged hoses on Navy-issue double hose regulators to goo in a few days.

We had to practice the same fire safety precaution's as flight crews when working on her when fueled, like grounding and using non-sparking non-ferrous hand tools. She was not designed to hold the weight of all that fuel out of the water so she had to be gasses in the water and degassed before bringing aboard the White Sands, a floating dry dock modified to support and transport her.

 

[Gene]

Is the VA aware of this issue, and if so are past service members with exposure being checked and/or their medical service records being noted for this?