Forced descent in Blue Hole

[MikeFerrara]

I would have expected such a briefing. This is a deep dive, to get any bottom time at all on such a dive you can't spend a lot of time on the descent. If you need to stop, ascend and wait to clear, continuing the dive (IMHO) would be a bad idea. Would not want to have similar issues coming back up, your gas is limited anyway to continue down after wasting a minute or two clearing might not be a good thing depends on the depth that you had the problem. At 10 feet not a problem, at 100 feet would not continue to 140 +.

Forced equalization certainly isn't good and a reverse block on the way up might be a possibility. Though, having to descend "slow" to equalize or getting temporarily blocked because one gets behind on equalizing (can happen espeially if you're not used to making fast descents and having to go up a little to equalize isn't necessarily an indication that you have a reverse block to look forward to on the way up.

All that said, I suppose a reverse block is always a remote possibility and you'd best have some extra gas and time to deal with it. Most of the reverse blocks that I've seen were associated with divers diving with congestion.

The problem here is just not having enough gas or time to really be doing the dive in the first place. If your buddy suffered a total gas loss at 140 would you have enough gas to get them to the surface doing a nice slow ascent?

 

[Kim]

Different situation from the OP, it's not current that the DM is worried about, it's air.

I agree. However Christie's reply said:

With that said, there are certain dives (I don't know if this is one of those) that require the divers to do a rapid descent and time cannot be wasted for those who are nervous, or slow to equalize.

I didn't get the impression she was talking about the Blue Hole - more that there ARE certain dives where there is no choice - she said herself she didn't know the Blue Hole.
At the end of the day though I'd have to agree with her that the DM shouldn't really be the arbiter of who can/can't do any given dive. If you have the cert and say you're up for it - it's down to you - no hand holding. The DM is just the guide. No?

I'd have to agree in the particular case of the Blue Hole though - based on the air considerations - it's pretty funky.

 

[vondo]

I've always wanted to dive the Blue Hole. I understand that the typical dive is 130 feet. I'm sure the divemaster wanted all the group together and could not spend time helping someone get down. And it is possible he communicated this in a terse way. I don't think it is an appropriate dive for new divers.

This is exactly what happens. They want to do this dive on tables as a group. Bottom time 9 minutes on the PADI tables, they say 8. So, everyone hit's the water, you descend to a mid-point ledge (40' maybe?), regroup and descend again. I don't remember if they start the 8 minute clock from the first descent or from the second, but yeah, they want everyone to get down as a group and if there is someone on the surface trying to sort out a weighting issue or trying to equalize, it screws up their plan.

Frankly, you could skip the Blue Hole. But the other two dives on that trip (Half Moon Caye and the Aquarium) are worth the price of the trip.

 

[cerich]

A responsible DM will choose dive site based upon the level of training and experience the divers have. A good DM will make divers who want hand holding feel secure and expand their skill level in the divers comfort zone. A good DM will NOT bring people they KNOW can't do a certain dive to a site just because the diver has a c card. A good DM who is faced with a diver who wants to do a certain dive with the Divemaster and the DM doesn't feel the diver is up to it will not take them. The diver is free to find another who will.

 

[DandyDon]

Angela, I know from before your trip that you really, really wanted to do the Belize Blue Hole. I think I was one of many who suggested that while the Ops there will take anyone with a C-card and money, I was also one of many who suggested it's not appropriate for new divers. My memory could be off in this case, but that's usually how newbies and this Blue Hole discussion goes. You saw the others, I suppose on your searches.

Yeah, for a guide to take a load of divers down that dark pit, the instructions you got were appropriate. Everyone has to do the 140 ft bounce dive on 80 cf tanks with air to spare. The DM didn't want to be searching for lost bodies once most got to the cave. Sure, he could have said it more politely, but remember that he's probably not a well educated person, English is not his first language, etc, and yeah, it would have been good to advise this in advance of selling the trip, but it's a poor country and they need to sell trips - not win awards for ethics.

I'm glad your pre-trip ear problems cleared up enough for diving. At least you got to do your hole, lunch with the boobies, and make a couple of neat dives after lunch in the area, if the trip went as they usually do. Which Op did you go with? I went with Aqua Dives a couple of years ago on one of their converted freight hauling boats and would not wish that experience on anyone. SStrecker is being too polite in not naming his problematic Op, as I feel this sort of bad trip info needs to be shared here.

The good Ops on Ambergris seem to be Amigos del Mar and Protech, maybe another whose name escapes me at the moment, and while the others may or maybe no be cheaper, this is a poor time to be saving a few bucks with the others, I think.

 

[Christi]

Same situation doing the Devil's Throat in Coz last year. Get down quick or the group has to go without you. After 20 dives that week it was tough, but I understood the limited bottom time and the need for the group to proceed. Was the last one down but made it and enjoyed a great dive. But a 3 hour boat ride might have kept me on shore!

You also have current to consider in Coz. In order to maximize this dives opportunities, the DM has to hit the site perfectly. They of course take the current into consideration and call the drop accordingly. If someone can't get down, you could miss the "throat."

 

[MikeFerrara]

This is exactly what happens. They want to do this dive on tables as a group. Bottom time 9 minutes on the PADI tables, they say 8. So, everyone hit's the water, you descend to a mid-point ledge (40' maybe?), regroup and descend again. I don't remember if they start the 8 minute clock from the first descent or from the second, but yeah, they want everyone to get down as a group and if there is someone on the surface trying to sort out a weighting issue or trying to equalize, it screws up their plan.

Frankly, you could skip the Blue Hole. But the other two dives on that trip (Half Moon Caye and the Aquarium) are worth the price of the trip.

Why would they have to "regroup"? Not being able to stay together during the descent is a red flag with flashing lights to me.

 

[Christi]

You just described a "trust me dive" that the "divemaster" knows is a difficult dive but for the money will do it. The problem is even those who equalize and follow are generally so far over their head it's not funny.

Avoid those situations.

As for your last comment, get off the horse.

You took my post so out of context I don't know where to begin. I have no idea where you got the impression I think this is a "trust me" dive...in fact exactly the opposite.

As I said, there are certain dives (I don't know if this is one of them) that require a fast descent. If you can't do it, only you know that and you shouldn't attempt it. However, if it is a dive requiring a fast descent, then it should be disclosed up front. Everything about this dive should be disclosed up front considering that it is a long boat ride and an expensive trip. I'd be upset too if I had gottenall the way out there and had to thumb the dive because I wasn't told of the procedures.

I wasn't referring to bottom time from an air management aspect, but for NDL's...again, I DON'T know the particular dive in question.

We don't do "trust me" dives, and we don't take divers to certain sites who haven't already dove several days with us and demonstrated their abilitites.

 

[Barracuda2]

BTW, since the main topic of this thread is the Blue Hole, I have a an 18 min. DVD program available if anyone is interested. It's produced as one dive, but it's actually 3 trips combined. no narration, just some titling and music. Got some neat critter behavior at the end as the divers are off-gassing in the shallows. PM me if interested. Can mail it to you at cost, about $6.00

Mods, is this ok to do this? I don't want to break any SB rules. If not, just remove this from the thread.

 

[TheRedHead]

It too is an advanced dive and we wanted to go, but they go based on the lunar calendar and we left too soon for it.

At this point in your diving, you should be very careful of "advanced" dives. You can get yourself in serious trouble. Fortunately, there are many dive operators, like Christi in Cozumel, who are cautious and evaluate divers, but the willingness of your operator in Belize to take you to the Blue Hole indicates there are others who are not as responsible.