Force Fin review by a die hard Jet Fin user.

[Randy43068]

Randy, I agree with you, $500.00 is a lot for fins. My Dad just had some plumbers fix his leaking valves on his sink. The new Valves (no lead mandate) cost $700.00 and their time of two hours added up to about $900.00. I was thinking that I should have joined the plumbers union. Most fins (90%) cost about $7.50 to manufacture and that includes the packaging. Then they retail with a 400% profit margin. The SD-1 is a very expensive fin and takes time to build. Some time if your in Santa Barbara I like to show you want goes into making high performance fins. I sure you might be surprised, and wonder if I should have become a plumber cleaning up people's Shi...

Bob, I hope you sell a lot of them, and I'm not saying it's a bad fin. However I won't be shelling out that much for a fin. I'll take your word on what it takes to make the fins but when I compare the cost of what I want a dive fin to do relative to cost and relative to the alternatives, not spending five hundred it's a no brainier for me. Having said that, if I'm in the area I'd like to see how they are made.

To me a fin is what I HAVE to use, not something I want to use. So, if I can get the job done for less than a hundred ( forty bucks in my case for used Jets, last I bought them ) then I can't see why I, or anyone would pay five hundred for a pair of fins. I don't want FINS, I want propulsion it just happens that fins are what gives me that motion.

 

[Underwater Ogre]

Details on this "research" project? If you had a bunch of divers try these fins against other ones and report back something subjective as "Yeah, I like them better", or "I swim faster with them." then it's not good research.

I've yet to see a real study on SCUBA fin performance. To do it one would need some sort of mechanical device to simulate a leg with foot attached and actually measure how much water was moved, or how much force was generated from a given input. Having people make subjective decisions on how the fin felt and compared to other fins isn't truly a good scientific measure one can use to compare fins.

Bear with me...this is my analogy of what you are saying.

If I said buy a BMW for $80K...because its a really nice car. You would say nahh...I'll stick with my Toyota. It gets me where I want to go and costs $30K. You are right...but I might prefer a BMW and "what it has to offer me", and I don't like Toyota because of past experiences. I am willing to pay for a BMW, just like Force Fins.
They both get us where we want to go...I just prefer get there in a different way.

Hopefully I didn't lose anyone,

hmmm...maybe I should buy less dive gear so I can afford the BMW??

U/O

 

[Randy43068]

Bear with me...this is my analogy of what you are saying.

If I said buy a BMW for $80K...because its a really nice car. You would say nahh...I'll stick with my Toyota. It gets me where I want to go and costs $30K. You are right...but I might prefer a BMW and "what it has to offer me", and I don't like Toyota because of past experiences. I am willing to pay for a BMW, just like Force Fins.
They both get us where we want to go...I just prefer get there in a different way.

Hopefully I didn't lose anyone,

hmmm...maybe I should buy less dive gear so I can afford the BMW??

U/O

Yes, it's a question of value. There is NO fin in the world that has five hundred dollars worth of value to ME.

The fins may have platinum for a backbone making them the most valuable in materials and time to assemble, but that had no value to ME. It's still a fin.

 

[Underwater Ogre]

It's still a fin.

Yes but a really cool looking fin

There is a beer commercial up here in the great white North...it goes like this.

"Those who like it...like it a lot!"

This would be the most accurate representation of Force Fin users. I don't know if you can use it Bob but it would be a nice slogan.


Sorry for the hijack
U/O

 

[Bob Evans]

Randy, noticed your a Police Officer. I appreciate your service we have a special offer for you. I like to support people who keep America safe. All my fin's are made in American in 4 production plants supporting American workers. Best, Bob

 

[dhuskins]

Is is worth the price?

That all depends on what you use to evaluate the value of the fins.

I'm a photographer. I need to take action pictures of a subject who often does not want the attention. Holding my position in the water, moving slightly sideways (quickly), backing up, while disturbing the bottom as little as possible is what gets me the photo I want. When I am done with this picture, I need to be over there for that picture. Effortless movement is what I demand.

I ask myself, how many pictures would I have missed if I could not control my position as well? What are those pictures worth to me? The answer, for me, was well over the $500 price tag of Bob's creation.

I cannot do these things as well with any other fin. For my type of diving, SD-1's are worth every penny.

That doesn't mean they are the ideal fin. (I haven't found that yet.) I have talked with Bob on a couple occasions about the foot pocket. For me, the foot pocket feels a bit bulky. He has even offered to buy my SD-1 fins back. I refuse to return them, since they are the best available fin I have found for single-tank, wet/dry suit photography rec diving. He will never pry them off my feet until I am dead, or he makes an SD-1 fin on a Pro foot pocket.

 

[meesier42]

To me a fin is what I HAVE to use, not something I want to use. So, if I can get the job done for less than a hundred ( forty bucks in my case for used Jets, last I bought them ) then I can't see why I, or anyone would pay five hundred for a pair of fins. I don't want FINS, I want propulsion it just happens that fins are what gives me that motion.

Not wanting fins, just having the propulsion when you need it, is exactly what ForceFins are all about. granted the SD-1 is not my first choice of a fin to do this (the Excellerating Tan Delta is, yet more expensive), they still do it very well. The beauty of the fins are that you can move along with little or no perceived effort.

 

[uncleavi]

Bob's Fins are worth every Penny to me and since I am the most important diver in my world, I deserve the best!

 

[deco_martini]

To me a fin is what I HAVE to use, not something I want to use.

I used atomic splits. great fins, no complaints. Moved to slipstreams because I needed something for more advanced dives. A grin and bear the poor fit and the ulcers or blisters execise.

Then after that horrible rite of advanced diverhood, I try the SD1.
I put them right on over my work shoes and they don't complain. I tight the straps. Then I stand up, and watch a perplexed toddler watch me walk around the kitchen in fins without wiping out any cabinets.

This is a fin that makes me want to use it, not just treat it as a necessary evil.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

If your analogy holds water, then we wouldn't bitch if mask de-fog cost seventy five dollars.

There is NO correlation to quality and the retail price of any dive equipment. You don't' always get what you pay for...

...Believe me I and I'll bet most of divers think five hundred dollars is more than just a decimal place especially for a pair of fins.

What analogy? If a fin offerred significnatly better performance in a cave environment, such as getting 500 feet more prentration on thirds through either improved speed or reduced gas consumption, with no compromises in other areas of performance, a significant number of cave divers would probably buy them. That is not an analogy, its just the way it is in a field where divers spend a huge amount of money compared to the average recreational diver given that it is very equipment and traning intensive with commensurate demands on the wallet.

To compare it to mask defog is a bit of a reach. I've used spit for 25 years without any problem or complaint and may have over that time bought two bottles of defog. Since it is free, does the job with 100% satisfaction and has no downside other than having to avoid eating doritos just before the dive, there is no need to be filled, no improvement to be made, and no reason to spend $75.

Now...I agree with you in that at the moment, having actually tested SD1s, I don't personally feel they do the job better than the Jet Fins and Slipstreams I already use (I have both due to both wetsuit and drysuit diving and the suitability of the foot pockets to each application) and see no need to buy a pair - but that would be true whatever the price. The fact that they cost $10 or $1000 would not impact the buying decision as they don't bring anything extra to the table for me.

On the other hand, Bob has done some cool things with fin design and if he ever develops a pair optimized for cave diving that gives me more than I currently get from my fins in all areas with no compromises, they'd get serious consideration - and again price would be a secondary consideration if the fins truly delivered a higher level of performance.

And you will note, I am STILL not arguing that price = quality. Your suggestion that this was the case was grossly innaccurate.