...http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/near-misses-lessons-learned/229010-i-panicked-lived-learned.html
Should be of interest to us.
Should be of interest to us.
For what it's worth
- Thread starter ScubaAndDreams
- Start date
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OP
Nah lets not, I don't think I am off too much if I state that this is the norm around here not the exception.....it's an industry issue...
Sherman is right, diving all the islands there are lot's of days where conditions and other factors push many dive op's into hand holding trust me dives. After you do it successfully over and over, the mind-set is to just do it all the time.
A high percentage of the signature dives here in Hawaii are advanced dives in the best conditions; the wrecks are deep and many of the shallow dives are cavern dives. With the trade winds and variable open ocean swells, currents, surge and low vis often make those dives even harder and the easiest shallow reef dives harder than many visitors skill level.
The dive magazines don't help the situation any by pushing a bunch of possibly strenuous dives as the must do dives of Hawaii. Even in this linked thread the conditions of the day have not been looked at closely. Like Leesa said, strong current is rare at the Sea Tiger. And the Captain mentioned the shallow dives having bad vis and being more dangerous.
The tourists do not have the luxury of waiting a week for better conditions, or even sometimes waiting a day. No employer is going to tell the instructors that they have to take the guests diving no matter what the conditions are, but if you call more than a few dives per year you may not be asked to guide many dives.
Straight out of the IDC I had no intention of making my specialty intro diving, but after a handful of years guiding vacationing Oahu and Maui certified divers, I now kind of prefer the intro's, because at least we are usually on the same page (trust me).
A high percentage of the signature dives here in Hawaii are advanced dives in the best conditions; the wrecks are deep and many of the shallow dives are cavern dives. With the trade winds and variable open ocean swells, currents, surge and low vis often make those dives even harder and the easiest shallow reef dives harder than many visitors skill level.
The dive magazines don't help the situation any by pushing a bunch of possibly strenuous dives as the must do dives of Hawaii. Even in this linked thread the conditions of the day have not been looked at closely. Like Leesa said, strong current is rare at the Sea Tiger. And the Captain mentioned the shallow dives having bad vis and being more dangerous.
The tourists do not have the luxury of waiting a week for better conditions, or even sometimes waiting a day. No employer is going to tell the instructors that they have to take the guests diving no matter what the conditions are, but if you call more than a few dives per year you may not be asked to guide many dives.
Straight out of the IDC I had no intention of making my specialty intro diving, but after a handful of years guiding vacationing Oahu and Maui certified divers, I now kind of prefer the intro's, because at least we are usually on the same page (trust me).
redrover
Guest
Wow! Really? Advertise 3 shallow and take to a 100 wreck is the norm? we booked a 3 tank shallow reef dive for our Hawaii trip. The website says 35-40 ft dives and is marketed to new or out of practice divers. Then the owner/captain says he doesn't do the three shallow dives because it wasn't profitable [/FONT:
I beg to differ on your inclusive all the islands. What you are saying IMHO is just not true here on TBI Kona side, at least who I dive with.
OP
Sorry I was making a general statement, and should have probably clarified...things of this nature...like take novice divers on a 100' dive, take novice divers on a 100' night dive, take novice divers inside wrecks .. at 100' etc etc etc from my observations seems to be the norm around here. I don't agree with it...but that's another topic.
That's funny, because one of the top 5 dives I was thinking of when I typed those words is the night manta dive. I did that dive the Sunday before Thanksgiving ('04) and there was significant surge, as well as a significant number of divers with limited experience/training &/or who had never done a night dive before.
My insta-buddy and I had done the day charter and were allowed to start the night dive on our own. The first I knew that the rest of the group had joined us was when 3 divers tumbled over me like trees rolling in a flood, and then back over me again going the other direction. It's very lucky that someone's reg wasn't pulled out with all the arm and leg flapping.
On the ride back to the harbor there were many comments like; "I didn't know which way was up and which way was down", "I thought I was going to die" (half joking), "I've never done a night dive before", "I've never dove in that much/any surge before", "I couldn't find my buddy for a while". That dive was with Jack's and I would go with them again, but a beginner dive it was not.
Your profile indicates less than 200 dives, so you probably don't do the night dive when the conditions are bad. You live here so you can wait for a better day. That dive happens nearly every day of the year, and plenty of days it is not a beginner dive!
The tourists are here for a week on average, and they have been told they must do; Night Manta, Molokini Backside, 5-Caves, Cathedrals, Sheraton Caverns, Tunnels, Mahi, Makaha Caverns, Shark's Cove, Corsair, YO, Sea Tiger. All of those dives are beyond the experience/training/skill of many of the visiting divers, even on a perfect day. And then there are the less than perfect days.
I will be there next month, I am a dive con in training right now with dives to deep wrecks in FL, and caribbean reefs. My wife is a novice so we will be diving to her skill level but it sound like all of the dives I have planned, Molokini, cathedrals.etc are all advanced dives? Just currious so she will know what she is up for.
Molokini is many different dives; There are snorkel tour boats moored in 35' water conducting intro dives for a few guests, there are occasional dive boats moored in 40' conducting intro's and beginner dives, there are dive boats moored in up to 60' conducting intermediate dives to ~ 80', there are dives that drift around the corners from moored boats to live pick-ups with depths from 80'-130' and there are live drift dives along the backside that are "wall dives" with no physical bottom (deeper than 150').
Both Cathedrals I and Cathedral II are cavern dives, although there may be restricted portions where buddies can not dive side by side. When you do any of the cavern dives in Hawaii, it is your call whether you follow the guide into the overhead environment. You can chose to dive with your buddy in open water and meet up with the group where they exit. It's best to discuss this with the guide before you splash.
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