For beginners - Point and shoot flash

[Ishie]

would using 800 speed film in a 35 mm with no flash help with back scatter!

Jim and I tried 800 speed with the flash, and not a single picture came out. Vis wasn't great that day, but also not horrible, and every single picture was a white blur.

Ishie

 

[Chris Bangs]

would using 800 speed film in a 35 mm with no flash help with back scatter!

Backscatter is a result os suspended particles reflecting the Flash back into the lens, therefore shooting without a flash will reduce backscatter, regardless of the film speed used.

faster film will allow you to shoot in lower light conditions without a strobe but it will not reduce any loss of color due to depth.

Chris

 

[Chris Bangs]

Jim and I tried 800 speed with the flash, and not a single picture came out. Vis wasn't great that day, but also not horrible, and every single picture was a white blur.

Ishie

I would guess that the images were overexposed.

When using 800 speed film, it is very unlikely that a flash would be required at all. I would guess the flash was most likey the source of the problem.

overexposure will also increase the backscatter effect!

A lesson on Film speed ( ASA )

800 ASA requires half as much light as 400 asa does to achieve the same exposure,

400 needs half that of 200 and so on.

if you increase the speed of the film you must compensate by adjusting the flash output and/or changing the aperture and shutter speed.

 

[Ishie]

I would guess that the images were overexposed.

When using 800 speed film, it is very unlikely that a flash would be required at all. I would guess the flash was most likey the source of the problem.

overexposure will also increase the backscatter effect!

A lesson on Film speed ( ASA )

800 ASA requires half as much light as 400 asa does to achieve the same exposure,

400 needs half that of 200 and so on.

if you increase the speed of the film you must compensate by adjusting the flash output and/or changing the aperture and shutter speed.

Thank you!!! For the last part, we're not quite into that yet. Still very much point and shoot and only marginal at that. We're both interested in getting more into underwater photography, but we're limited by the fact that neither of us knows photography all that well on land.

Ishie

 

[Chris Bangs]

Hi Ishie

Please provide some details on both your and Jim's your setup and I will try to give you some specific information so that you can get some keepers.

Chris

 

[Ishie]

Hi Ishie

Please provide some details on both your and Jim's your setup and I will try to give you some specific information so that you can get some keepers.

Chris

Heh heh... well, since we don't know much about photography and didn't want to rush into major purchasing before knowing what we were doing (avoiding that common buy an expensive set up thing, outgrow it quickly, and then buy an even more expensive set up thing), we're using a cheapie 50 dollar camera and housing with the dreaded internal flash. Granted, we're both well aware that we are not going to get National Geographic photos with this thing, but wanted to start getting a feel for technique before we decided what was the best camera/housing/strobe setup for us.

Skills-wise, we've found that we're having a major problem with backscatter. Ditching the flash on well lit days and shooting up has helped us get some better images, though of course, even at shallow depths, this sacrifices color. Some images we've gotten have been complete flukes though, and we want to get the best reproduction of those "flukes" by knowing what we did that made a shot good. One example is shooting a wolf eel at about 40 foot depth with flash. We took four pictures of him, two are a little blurry, but compared to others, very nice (he wouldn't come out for us but allowed us to get quite close to him). The colors came out nicely and you can see his big cute ugly head and the rock wall with minimal backscatter. Other items shot at similar depth, range, and visibility though, totally whited out with the reflection off anything in the water.

Had no luck at ALL with our night dive (tried to take close up shots of stuff, use the flash, and dive light from the side). Roll came out black. When we talked to one of the guys at the Dolphin Divers meeting, he said to get night shots, we needed MAJOR strobe action, so...

Thanks!

Ishie

 

[Chris Bangs]

Hi ishie

now back ic damp and cloudy Japan

the night shots should have turned out if you were shooting close up! only the background water would be dark but ambient light will not affect the flash exposure.

what kind of camera are you using? do you have ANY capability of adjusting exposure?

best tip, if you are using film try 200 asa and stick with that! at the very least, use the same film type and work with that. this will make it easier to dial in your techniques. in other words keep your camera settings constant as this will allow you to get a better idea as to what works and what does not work.

Chris

 

[Jim Ernst]

Hi Chris, Jim here, Ishie's boyfriend. We have been using 400 speed and flash, the camera is a very inexpensive, a suprema super sport. It has no adjustments. Only flash on, off, and red eye reduction. We have gotten some good pictures, but are still learning, as you can probably tell. Would using 200 speed and no flash be a better alternetive, or do you feel that we should stick to the 400 and try no flash. we want to buy a good set up, but not until we learn the basics, as i am still doing on this board as well so please bear with me. thank you for any of your recommendations and help.

 

[Chris Bangs]

Hi Jim, if you are getting good results with 400 stick with that. check the camera documentation to see if it reads the DX info on the film, if so then the camera should make some automatic adjustments based on the film speed.

another thing came to mind as well, "processing" I would guess that you are using Negative (print) film. if so your negatives may actually be better than the prints. years ago I was teaching a photo course ( nikonos III ) and I provided the students with nikonos camera setups, on the fist dive I made the adjustments and had everyone just practice composition, well when the prints were reviewed some looked great while others were horrible. I looked at the negatives and they seemed to be properly exposed so I took them and scanned em. well the resulting scans turned out good.

Why, you may ask? well the bad ones were all taken to the same quickie photo lab. the machines in such labs are calibrated for land shots. therefore the machine tried to adjust light and color levels to match blue sky in daylight. this resulted in the print looking way overexposed!

check with other divers in your area and find a lab that knows how to print underwater shots, or ask your lab to print the shots without color and exposure adjustments.

lastly, think about getting a entry level digital camera, if you shoot a lot, the savings from not buying film and prints will pay the camera quite quickly, most important you can check your results on the dive

Chris

 

[Jim Ernst]

chris, thanks a lot, first i have been using a one ohour photo to do our developing,that could be prob! and ok i will stick with 400 unless you think 200 could be , and i will try no flash as well, ishie and i will defenatly try all you suggest thanks again!!! jim