First time diving Bali

[AlMitch]

My trip with them was great. Did 3 days of diving with them. 2 days at sites in padang bai, my wife and I had our own dive master. Saw the things that we wanted to see. Then 1 day dive to see mantas and mola molas. Luckily, on the day we went, we were the only dive group that saw molas. Even the dive guides were as excited as me when we saw 2 of them in 1 dive. There were only 4 divers for that day which was great. I hear gecko dive beside absolute is a good shop as well but i noticed their boats were PACKED, i personally dont enjoy full boats, so im glad i went with Absolute.
The dive manager is great, he tries to make sure you have great dives and always waiting for you at the entrance after each dive asking if you had fun or not. They have a nice locked gear room, with fans, so your wetsuits are ALWAYS dry lol.

Food was good, but dont expect 5 star hotel type food.
Rooms were cozy, however the showers had a lil bit of a salty taste to it, but there is hot water.

Hey I'm glad you had a good time diving. And wow you got lucky with the Molas!
I hope the rest of your honeymoon on Bali was as good!
Have you started looking at return flights yet??

 

[Luko]

I'm not a sheep and don't need things pointed out to me. As a DM, I prefer trying to look for things myself

Wow... didn't know being a DM gave you all that instant knowledge and such wisdom over all of us sheepish divers.
Me, I confess I've been a sheep those last 30 years and more than 1000 dives, but I'm no DM for my sins.
And btw, would you pls remind me why you were asking for excellent spotters ? A sudden case of sheep scrapie?

Are you seriously excusing this sleazy business practice?

Nope, I didn't give any free reins to the shop but as they say, it takes two to tango : a shop and a customer. I explained 1- it's a marketing trick, ie. there is always some "magic" in that kind promise (what is unlimited in this world? Not even the universe.) 2- as a customer, who's gullible enough to take that at face value.

Nobody is expecting all the things you listed simultaneously.

Who was I mismatching with the person who was writing and complaining simultaneously about a- the quality of the guide, b-the limited number of dives, c-the length of the dives, d-the fact that one had to walk and e-wasn't helped to carry stuff back to the diveshop?
Didn't you?
On the other side what is a FACT is that this is sold for less than 90USD while the other shops around would sell 3 dives for that price.

Plus they can have different guides for each "unlimited" package

So they could "burn" two guides at a time for a cheapskate package? Hope you're not expecting to manage or own a dive shop (or any other shop), otherwise good luck for staff scheduling.

For a new diver with high air consumption who's eager to practice diving skills, maybe they'd want 6 dives of 30-40 minutes a day.

6 dives a day for a new diver?
Hope (for your students) you don't go to instructorship as well...

If this is what you think slavery is, you probably really should go back to school.

Very funny. You should first get to know the background of people you're speaking with before making personal assumptions. Take a back seat and look at your logics first. Haaa... the joy of the Internet.
Won't say no more.

 

[dumpsterpurrs]

Wow... didn't know being a DM gave you all that instant knowledge and such wisdom over all of us sheepish divers.
Me, I confess I've been a sheep those last 30 years and more than 1000 dives, but I'm no DM for my sins.
And btw, would you pls remind me why you were asking for excellent spotters ? A sudden case of sheep scrapie?

Honestly work a bit harder on your reading comprehension would serve you very well in the future. No diver in the world is so self-delusional to think they can spot more critters than any local guides with thousands of dives in their home turf. If I can get an excellent guide willing to show me stuff, I'd be happy to have them and pay them appropriately. But with a bad guide like I had, I'd much rather spend all the time on my own to enjoy diving underwater. Diving isn't about ticking off a checklist of critters. To me it's about being one with the water, and a bad guide rushing me along without showing me much (like the Matahari guide) would only make the dive a lot less enjoyable. I'd rather go up after an hour and a half seeing nothing but a bunch of nudies in the sand, and actually get to enjoy my time.

Idk why you enjoy calling yourself a sheep, I don't. Hyperfixating on a critter checklist provided by a guide instead of just diving and trying to find things on your own, is sheep diving to me. I like to dive just to be in the water. If I can see more things thanks to a good guide, that's bonus, not the absolute requirement.

Nope, I didn't give any free reins to the shop but as they say, it takes two to tango : a shop and a customer. I explained 1- it's a marketing trick, ie. there is always some "magic" in that kind promise (what is unlimited in this world? Not even the universe.) 2- as a customer, who's gullible enough to take that at face value.

So you agreed that Matahari intentionally plays a trick on their prospective customers. What's there to excuse anymore? Why are you still defending it?

Who was I mismatching with the person who was writing and complaining simultaneously about a- the quality of the guide, b-the limited number of dives, c-the length of the dives, d-the fact that one had to walk and e-wasn't helped to carry stuff back to the diveshop?
Didn't you?

I wasn't complaining about anything beyond the quality of my guide from Matahari. I was pointing out where you were wrong in your assertions.
1. You claimed no dive shop in Tulamben limits dive counts either. That's also not true. I gave an example.
2. You claimed no dive shop in Tulamben limits dive time. That's absolutely not true. I gave an example.
3. You claimed even divers twice the size of guides can ask guides or porters to carry their equipment to the water for them. That's still not true, as the example I provided with Matahari. I was a tiny girl before the pandemic. I could carry my gear at the time, so it's not a complaint there, just to show where you're wrong again.
Pointing out where things are lacking doesn't equate to expecting everything simultaneously perfect. It is what it is, I'm only here to point out the facts true to my cases and those I know, and not the rose-tinted version you shared.
Just admit that your experience is limited and not universal, that some dive shops in Tulamben (and many other places, including where i am) employ unethical business practices meant to trick customers.

On the other side what is a FACT is that this is sold for less than 90USD while the other shops around would sell 3 dives for that price.

Dude, you need to go diving more around Southeast Asia. Where I work in Indonesia, they charge under 2 million IDR for a package of 5-6 guided boat dives with full equipment (and free refreshment). Before going pro, I dived with another dive shop on the island paying 230.000IDR/guided boat dive without gear. Boat rides are 10-40 mins, no surcharge. 90USD for unlimited shore diving isn't anything special over here (esp without any extras like refreshment or help with equipment). I forgot how much resorts with housereef charge for unlimited shore diving in Anilao, but it's pretty reasonable too.
(just to note that I don't support this "race to the bottom" and pricing war, but that's the reality we deal with here)

So they could "burn" two guides at a time for a cheapskate package? Hope you're not expecting to manage or own a dive shop (or any other shop), otherwise good luck for staff scheduling.

Explain to me how two guides are "burned" when they work fewer shifts a day? If they want and can, they should be able to work more. If they don't, they should be able to choose to go for fewer dives. How is giving guides choice burning them? It's the business that come up with the cheapskate package. If their staff is unhappy about providing that product, it's on the business to adjust how they run, not on customers to accept an inferior service than promised.

I...am assistant manager at my current dive shop. We have no problem giving guides and instructors choices about when to work, whether they get to take one or four divers out at one time is their own choice depending on availability.

6 dives a day for a new diver?
Hope (for your students) you don't go to instructorship as well...

Certified divers should be autonomous and able to make decisions for dives within their training limit. Some might want more time in the water to feel more comfortable with blowing bubbles or practice buoyancy and trim and finning and whatever. Tulamben is ideal for that with its easy shore diving most of the time. I don't see anything wrong with new motivated divers wanting to take a lot of time practicing on their own after the course. If they have the stamina and mental clarity to go on, then why not? Maybe they struggle on one dive and have to cancel it early. Or Maybe they just have a lot of energy. When I finished my Rescue course, I did my last two dives for the course in the morning, then went on to do three more fun dives with a night dive that day. It's fine if you don't have that energy and mental clarity, I don't anymore, but many can, and they would mistakenly choose a place like Matahari falsely advertising unlimited shore diving hoping they can get a lot of practice.

Your experience, however many, isn't the end all be all. People have different experiences, accept and respect them. Spewing absolutes like "XYZ absolutely does or doesn't happen in Tulamben" only serves to feed the monsters practicing business trickery to defraud the customers.

 

[matts1w]

 

[Centrals]

Thou shalt not challenge my "expertise"!!!!!
LOL.

 

[Luko]

Idk why you enjoy calling yourself a sheep, I don't. Hyperfixating on a critter checklist provided by a guide instead of just diving and trying to find things on your own, is sheep diving to me.

What can I advise you if you cannot imagine that experienced divers like to have a local guide? If you think having a guide equals being sheepish, maybe you would also learn to be humble enough to assume some guides will find critters and teach you marine bio better than your PADI lessons you're just coming from.
I give you some hints : you don't need to have a checklist, you may also talk before the dive and try to find critters on your side while your guide's looking on his side (believe it or not some pro photographers I know use not one but TWO guides at a time)... you don't need to grow wool either for that.
I've often seen instr/DM foreigners from any gender who arrogantly think their C-Cards give them a god-given superiority over the local guides, while after 2 dives with them I realize they know more about beer brands than bio or critters and I'm eventually taking the lead. Sheep may show teeth tho.
If it weren't for the marine bio and the photo, I wouldn't care for the diving. I have water in my bathroom. The only way you can learn is with local guides, not looking at your CCard, whether it's tech or not.

I'll stick to where you're taking me credit for assertions that aren't mine. I think I'm the best person to express and write what I think, I don't need your oracle services for that.
I may be proved wrong sometimes which is fine to me as I think I am in good faith : FWIW I know a tiny bit about Tulamben (20 dive trips and probably >350 dives in the area just for the past 15 years) so I can share about my experience if that is still OK for you.

Before that a little courtesy lesson mind you :

Dude,

Talking about "respect" I'm not your "Dude" would you pls care to stay in the polite zone, like your parents or boss taught you. It doesn't make look you cool or swag "Duding" people you don't know, I'm not calling you "Chick". Think that if I walk into your shop, you'd call me "Sir". Okay?

So you agreed that Matahari intentionally plays a trick on their prospective customers. What's there to excuse anymore? Why are you still defending it?

I agree there is nothing unlimited in this universe that's what I clearly wrote. Didn't I? pls refer to Stephen Hawking if you don't agree.

I am not defending Matahari in any way, I have never recommended this operation. I am saying that for this marketing illusion to exist it needs gullible customers to buy it. Why then did you buy it?
Yes, the sea monkeys sold at the back of the 70's comic books could not be trained as it was advertized, what's new?
if there is someone to be called a sheep in this story... oh hum... .
The best you could have done is not purchasing it, but greed is greed... I guess it's too late...
You can sue Yuri the manager (hint : he's russian...) then after you can read on Don Quixote and try to understand what's the concept underlying "fighting against windmills" .
The only positive lesson one could get from your experience is that price has a good information on what you can or cannot get. (That was Von Hayek's theory... you're welcome.)

1. You claimed no dive shop in Tulamben limits dive counts either. That's also not true. I gave an example.
2. You claimed no dive shop in Tulamben limits dive time. That's absolutely not true. I gave an example.
3. You claimed even divers twice the size of guides can ask guides or porters to carry their equipment to the water for them That's still not true, as the example I provided with Matahari. .

This is typically what Schopenhauer calls the "strawman". Pls don't distort what I wrote.
1- Were did you read that? I didn't write anything about the number of dives in a package. I said beforehand I do not endorse unlimited packages.
2- Yes I did, but I amended my version saying "providing you are diving a reasonable number of dives" oh should I also add "providing you still have air/EAN in your tank"?.
3- Where did you read that sort? I wrote I saw guys or girls asking their guides to carry their stuff to the water, ANYONE in Tulamben can witness that situation EVERYDAY. I didn't claim it was a service included (only porter service is included, but not for the cheapskate divers that I regularly see walking west to the wreck on the rocky beach with their kits on), it's up to the guide's goodwill to help out, lazy customers prefer to ask their guides to and most of the time the guide will as they want their customer to be satisfied. Some others won't because their customers are never satisfied *ssholes.

btw, was all the purpose of your writing efforts intending to say I was wrong (What an honor to be the center of a post) or was it just you whining you had low service paying a cheapskate package? (which reminded me of people complaining their 50USD Rolex watch bought on ebay was a fake).

you need to go diving more around Southeast Asia. Where I work in Indonesia, they charge under 2 million IDR for a package of 5-6 guided boat dives with full equipment (and free refreshment). Before going pro, I dived with another dive shop on the island paying 230.000IDR/guided boat dive without gear. Boat rides are 10-40 mins, no surcharge. 90USD for unlimited shore diving isn't anything special over here (esp without any extras like refreshment or help with equipment). I forgot how much resorts with housereef charge for unlimited shore diving in Anilao, but it's pretty reasonable too.

I wish I could go diving more than 3 trips a year to SEA. I would then be more than my poor >1000 dives all over SEA. But Tulamben is the topic, hence it's not a "longest in SEA" contest, right?
What you call a package of 5-6 guided dives under 2 mIDR is over 2 days, not comparable to your unlimited dives/day package. Let's not mix it up.
Pricewise in Tulamben , I suspect you refer to such divecenters like Dive Concept for me the epitome of the low end operation with low service and low respect. If cattle trucks, bule guides and low service is your stuff, go with them.
I stated 90USD for 3 dives because that's about the norm currently in Tulamben (450kIDR per dive) for dive centers like LDR, Reef divers, Wreck divers. LGD or some others would be marginally cheaper 95USD or so for 4 dives on a single day but my point is that you def cannot fit 6 or more guided dives a day (since that's your purpose of having more than 5 dives) into 90USD.

Explain to me how two guides are "burned" when they work fewer shifts a day?

If the unlimited diving package allowed 6-7 dives, it would need at least 2 guides : one with 3 dives the other 4 dives. That's already a day for both guides, ethical dive centers won't allow their guides to dive more than 4 dives/day if it's being repetitive, -exceptionnally 5-. Meaning that the other guide would have 1 dive left, this will be hard to fit with some other customer schedule.
Rule of thumb, there is absolutely no interest businesswise to put your assets in your less profitable product : either you go bankrupt on a short time or you get the less motivated guides you will find, meaning low customer satisfaction (that's what happened to you btw) and bankrupt in the midterm. In the end, same result.

I...am assistant manager at my current dive shop. We have no problem giving guides and instructors choices about when to work, whether they get to take one or four divers out at one time is their own choice depending on availability.

Good for you.
However what you say has absolutely NO relationship with the unlimited diving guide scheduling issue we're talking about. You could as well tell us what you ate for breakfast, I wouldn't care less.

Certified divers should be autonomous and able to make decisions for dives within their training limit. Some might want more time in the water to feel more comfortable with blowing bubbles or practice buoyancy and trim and finning and whatever. Tulamben is ideal for that with its easy shore diving most of the time. I don't see anything wrong with new motivated divers wanting to take a lot of time practicing on their own after the course. If they have the stamina and mental clarity to go on, then why not? Maybe they struggle on one dive and have to cancel it early. Or Maybe they just have a lot of energy. When I finished my Rescue course, I did my last two dives for the course in the morning, then went on to do three more fun dives with a night dive that day.

You are introducing yourself like a pro though you're a junior DM with less than 500 dives if your SB profile is right. Sorry to say, but advising a new diver to get 6 or 7 dives a day (ie. implying without EAN cert) is not the most recommended thing real instructors would advise.

People have different experiences, accept and respect them.

On my part I have no problem with that : you had a sh*tty experience with a low budget package. I told you I had no surprize with it but you couldn't ask for wonders or VIP service.
On the other hand I 'm not sure calling other divers "sheep" like you do is respectful and acceptable to other divers : when you want to do a lesson in morality, try first to apply it to yourself.

(I'll stop here because it seems to attract the usual sh*tfly.)

 

[Centrals]

Dive Prices + Dive Courses - Matahari Tulamben Bali

SCUBA Diving Tulamben dive sites with Matahari Tulamben Resort

www.divetulamben.com

Unlimited diving, there is no mentioning on number of dives(unlimited) or duration of each dive including minimum surface interval.
Starts at 06:30 until 18:30(starts of last dive).
From about US$90.00(small group) - 120.00(private guide). Porter, tank and weight are included.

I can easily make six 50-60mins dives with over 1hr of surface interval between dive.
What is the catch?

 

[dumpsterpurrs]

What can I advise you if you cannot imagine that experienced divers like to have a local guide?

Where did I say divers of any level of experience not like to have a good local guide? I myself LOVE to have good local guides. Like I have repeatedly mentioned, there's no way I (or any visiting divers of any experience levels) can find more critters than any local guide of any quality.
But finding critters isn't the only objective in diving for many divers, myself included. In certain situations, diving unguided can give people a better experience. This case is it: bad guide plus limited dive time plus limited dive count plus easy shore diving and simple dive sites to navigate.

If you think having a guide equals being sheepish, maybe you would also learn to be humble enough to assume some guides will find critters and teach you marine bio better than your PADI lessons you're just coming from.

I never called any divers "sheep," only you declaring so about yourself. I called a style of diving "sheep diving TO ME." What part of "to me" don't you understand? My preferred style of diving is "sloth diving" - moving as slow as possible, barely finning at all. Friend of mine with nearly 1000 dives came up with "sheep diving" as it is her preferred style. She simply prefers to focus on diving and not navigating or spotting, so she is happy to stick to dive guides. Nothing wrong with either of our preferences. They're simply personal preferences.
Nothing wrong with PADI, but I'm not a PADI dive pro and haven't taken a single PADI course in many years. Funny you made that assumption about someone you don't know. Btw I also have basic marine bio education, not enough to even begin to compare with experienced spotters and actual marine biologists, though. None of that is relevant here.

I give you some hints : you don't need to have a checklist, you may also talk before the dive and try to find critters on your side while your guide's looking on his side (believe it or not some pro photographers I know use not one but TWO guides at a time)... you don't need to grow wool either for that.

Ok good for them but that's not how *I* like to dive.

I've often seen instr/DM foreigners from any gender who arrogantly think their C-Cards give them a god-given superiority over the local guides, while after 2 dives with them I realize they know more about beer brands than bio or critters and I'm eventually taking the lead. Sheep may show teeth tho.

Sure I've heard of those too. Maybe that's the local guide from Matahari I had that time. He was local though, as far as I could tell.

If it weren't for the marine bio and the photo, I wouldn't care for the diving. I have water in my bathroom.

Good for you, that's you. I don't take photos and didn't get my first camera until pretty much now. I care for the diving itself as well as the marine life, but to me diving means more than fish as diving is the only physical therapy my chronically sick body can get. I'd happily take a tank down to a sandy bottom and milky viz and spend hours there. People want different things out of diving.

The only way you can learn is with local guides, not looking at your CCard, whether it's tech or not.

That's one of the ways to learn about bio marine life. There's more to diving though. C-cards help no one dive, I'm sure no one here would argue with you on that.

FWIW I know a tiny bit about Tulamben (20 dive trips and probably >350 dives in the area just for the past 15 years) so I can share about my experience if that is still OK for you.

You're welcome to share your experience, as I did and as others have done here. Don't tell others their experiences are wrong.

I am saying that for this marketing illusion to exist it needs gullible customers to buy it. Why then did you buy it?
Yes, the sea monkeys sold at the back of the 70's comic books could not be trained as it was advertized, what's new?
if there is someone to be called a sheep in this story... oh hum... .
The best you could have done is not purchasing it, but greed is greed... I guess it's too late...
The only positive lesson one could get from your experience is that price has a good information on what you can or cannot get.

btw, was all the purpose of your writing efforts intending to say I was wrong (What an honor to be the center of a post) or was it just you whining you had low service paying a cheapskate package? (which reminded me of people complaining their 50USD Rolex watch bought on ebay was a fake).

I stated 90USD for 3 dives because that's about the norm currently in Tulamben (450kIDR per dive) for dive centers like LDR, Reef divers, Wreck divers. LGD or some others would be marginally cheaper 95USD or so for 4 dives on a single day but my point is that you def cannot fit 6 or more guided dives a day (since that's your purpose of having more than 5 dives) into 90USD.

You're clearly just not experienced with all kinds of scuba services Southeast Asia has to offer. There's nothing out of the ordinary with Matahari's pricing at first glance. People who have dived around SEA know it's normal pricing for lower-end places if Matahari delivered exactly what they promise. If they can't provide a service at the price point advertised, maybe they shouldn't be selling that service anymore.

Lower-end places offering no-frill services allow divers with less financial means to access diving. It's particularly important in regions like SEA where the average income is low. The GDP per capita in my home country, a neighbor to Indonesia, is lower than Indonesians'. The best dive club in my country can only take their divers to places like Matahari because that's all their divers can afford. 1.300.000 IDR/5-6 dives really isn't out of the ordinary. Even Sipadan can be $200/5-6 dives/day with 3 boat dives at Sipadan and unlimited housereef including accom food transport etc (also billed as an unlimited package, and it's truly unlimited). People coming to a place like Matahari would not suspect there's anything fishy about their pricing for the unlimited package because that price range really is the norm around here. Shaming people for being poor and calling them cheapskates is hardly kind. The Coral Triangle isn't a playground for rich Westerners only. There are those from all over the world who have had to save all their life to go to SEA, and there are many many people from SEA like myself who love to experience what our ocean offers. As long as there are ethical businesses offering acceptable services at acceptable price points, we should be allowed to dive SEA like those with more financial means like yourself.
What we're discussing here isn't whether something is cheap or expensive, or if the people choosing lower-end services are greedy, or if those going with higher-end places are classist snobs. The problem is false advertisement and business trickery. I don't speak for the other commenter pointing out this problem at Matahari; I just want others to be aware of the many possible levels of services offered in Tulamben. Not everywhere there would offer truly unlimited dive time like you claimed OR unlimited dive count like Matahari advertises.

advising a new diver to get 6 or 7 dives a day (ie. implying without EAN cert) is not the most recommended thing real instructors would advise.

What??? Who ADVISED anyone to do 6-7 dives a day? (I can't fathom being able to schedule 7 dives a day, but I'm slow to kit up so maybe that's just me) But if that's what certified autonomous divers figure is safe for themselves, who am I to police them? Who am I to police an experienced diver with excellent air consumption like @Centrals to do 6 long dives a day if he can fit them in the allotted time?

Unlimited diving, there is no mentioning on number of dives(unlimited) or duration of each dive including minimum surface interval.
Starts at 06:30 until 18:30(starts of last dive).
From about US$90.00(small group) - 120.00(private guide). Porter, tank and weight are included.

I can easily make six 50-60mins dives with over 1hr of surface interval between dive.
What is the catch?

That's why I commented initially, they don't mention max number of dives or duration of each dive, but they absolutely did enforce a limit on me and some other people I know at different points in time. You should get them to confirm in writing how many dives max and max time for each dive you're allowed each day. I didn't. I couldn't find any fine print so I made the wrong assumption that it's truly unlimited as advertised and clearly spelled out on their website. It was not. That's the entire reason for the bickering on this thread in the last couple of pages.

 

[Centrals]

That's why I commented initially, they don't mention max number of dives or duration of each dive, but they absolutely did enforce a limit on me and some other people I know at different points in time. You should get them to confirm in writing how many dives max and max time for each dive you're allowed each day. I didn't. I couldn't find any fine print so I made the wrong assumption that it's truly unlimited as advertised and clearly spelled out on their website. It was not. That's the entire reason for the bickering on this thread in the last couple of pages.

Too good to be true!
I would had wrote to them to confirm everything. There are too many unscrupulous business practices in every trade.
BTW, even with written confirmation what can you do about it if the other side does not honour its obligation/promise?
What have you done after that?
"Matahari" is not worth the bother.

 

[Blackcrusader]

My 2 cents. My UK dive buddy does not have the same financial resources I have. He has dived with Matahari before. I did not find their "unlimited" Diving claim deceptive but I did email before I went there. Our dive times were not limited to 60 minutes but we did have a dive buddy, a DMT from Italy who had quite high gas consumption that was the limiting factor in our dive times. He was also on a tight budget.

Apart from showing us the Pigmy Seahorse our guide found we enjoyed being told go in that direction and you may see such and such. We found critters using the guide and at times without the guide. I am a large chap and was not going to kit up and walk across the boulders into the shore entry, so I had the kit carried to the shore line where my guide would then inflate my bcd and float my gear out to me. easy peasy. Getting out same kit off guide takes it to shore porter carried kit to truck. I did not let them take my dive gear back to Matahari on their scooters. If it was rental I would not have cared.

We did the Liberty wreck dive at 6:30am and also as a day and night dive. It was OK.
Overall if you did you 4 or 5 dives a day Matahari had a maximum price point. That worked well. Overall we had a good time except for the excursion to Ahmed where the dive site was from the shore and not very good. We invited our DM to eat outside with us at a local Warung a couple of times. HE was also a freelance guide not working full time.

This year my UK buddy and I will go to Bali and Lombok again. Wild Scuba for 7 diving days and maybe north Gili for a few days or maybe Padang Bai for a few days.