First stage clicking?

[halocline]

Good question; I assumed he meant the first stage as well due to the clicking sound coming from behind his head and the HP seat failure comment made by the tech.

 

[billindenver]

Not sure where the confusion came from to make several people think I was talking about second stages, but the problem was in the first stage. Maybe my word for the plastic seat he replaced was incorrect. It's in the first stage, looks like a small metal tube with a plastic hat on one end...tapered on the other as I recall. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure it was on the opposite side of the first stage from the Intermediate adjustment. Anyway, it was part of a recall where 'that thing' was made of soft plastic that tended to fail in spectacular fashion. The tech said he had seen them fail on the bench and it was something he would not want to see underwater. Mine had 3 dives on it and that plastic seat (thing) was beat up pretty badly. Another dive and it may have gone from being noisy for the first five minutes to letting go and blowing the second stage out of my mouth (his words). In any event, it became apparent that the clicking I thought was coming from behind my head really was, and an unpleasant failure mode was imminent. I am very glad I took it in for a check, and still none to happy with Divers Supply for being an Oceanic Dealer and selling a recalled first stage without checking that the recall was performed. If an authorized dealer isn't the place to buy these things with confidence, who is?

In any event, he replaced the seat with what he called a 'recall kit' that Oceanic must have put out as part of that recall and I dove mine today with no complaints.

 

[halocline]

That's what I thought. So, sitting on the shelf would not wear out the seat. BTW, there is some confusion among manufacturers on the nomenclature of various parts. On SP diaphragm first stages, the small tube is all metal and called a poppet, and the seat is a plastic cup that seals against the "hat" portion of the tube. It doesn't matter; the point is sitting on the shelf would not wear out those parts. Over decades, I guess the plastic parts could degrade, but by then the o-rings would probably be pretty toasty and the reg would leak badly immediately on pressurization. I've opened up 20 year old SP piston firsts (with AWAP, in fact) and found what appeared to be the original o-rings still in decent shape and holding a seal. So don't let your tech blame this on the shelf life. There was definitely a bad seat. (or poppet, whatever they call it)

 

[billindenver]

That's what I thought. So, sitting on the shelf would not wear out the seat. BTW, there is some confusion among manufacturers on the nomenclature of various parts. On SP diaphragm first stages, the small tube is all metal and called a poppet, and the seat is a plastic cup that seals against the "hat" portion of the tube. It doesn't matter; the point is sitting on the shelf would not wear out those parts. Over decades, I guess the plastic parts could degrade, but by then the o-rings would probably be pretty toasty and the reg would leak badly immediately on pressurization. I've opened up 20 year old SP piston firsts (with AWAP, in fact) and found what appeared to be the original o-rings still in decent shape and holding a seal. So don't let your tech blame this on the shelf life. There was definitely a bad seat. (or poppet, whatever they call it)

He wasn't blaming it on shelf life or suggesting it was used when I bought it, rather he said that despite the fact that it only had 3 dives on it, that piece looked like it had 2000. Meaning that it was severly worn and just short of failing altogether. Below is a copy of the recall notice:

Oceanic has been notified by its supplier (ROMI, Ent.) that they have received isolated reports of DX type Regulator First Stages exhibiting uncontrolled flow of air to the Second Stage.

Evaluation has shown that a specific batch of HP (High Pressure) Seats contained material that can deteriorate and fail to properly perform its mechanical sealing (shut off) function, causing an uncontrollable free flow which could result in serious injury to or death of the user.

In cooperation with the U. S. CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission), ROMI is initiating a voluntary recall of all affected CDX5 and FDX10 (diaphragm) type First Stages.

The affected First Stages include those that were shipped to Oceanic Retailers from the factory between May 1, 2006 and November 15, 2006. Other model DX type First Stages, such as the CDX, DXi, DX3, DX4, and TDX5, that received annual service between May 1, 2006, and October 22, 2007, may also be affected.
.​

 

[billindenver]

I understand your concern about HP seat failure at depth. It really should not be life-threatening, though. That's why we have the buddy system, as well as immediate access to the surface in OW diving. Still, something doesn't have to be life threatening to be unpleasant and scary!

Well, we both dive the same regs, bought from the same shop at the same time...so if one was approaching failure, the other may have gone with it. To make matters worse, and I know you of all people will understand this, my dive buddy is from San Antonio....so god knows where she would be when mine failed.

Water under the bridge at this point, but any failure that results in my needing buddy air to survive is bad in my book. There are risks involved with this sport and others I participate in, and I assume those risks happily but when I buy a brand new regulator from an authorized dealer should I not have some sort of reassurance that any several year old recalls that result in catastrophic failure have been performed already?

In any event, dive on....

 

[redacted]

Not sure where the confusion came from to make several people think I was talking about second stages, but the problem was in the first stage.

Thanks for the clarification. Each mfgr tends to use somewhat different terminology which contributes to this kind of confusion. Oceanic calls it an "HP seat" in the 1st stage and a "poppet seat" in the 2nd stage (Delta). I too am somewhat surprised that a reg with an existing recall made it out of a retailer, but I guess that is just another one in the SH category.

BTW, I suspect an IP gauge would have let you see that there was a problem right after you first heard the clicking. An IP gauge is to a regulator like a dipstick is to an automobile engine.

 

[billindenver]

Thanks for the clarification. Each mfgr tends to use somewhat different terminology which contributes to this kind of confusion. Oceanic calls it an "HP seat" in the 1st stage and a "poppet seat" in the 2nd stage (Delta). I too am somewhat surprised that a reg with an existing recall made it out of a retailer, but I guess that is just another one in the SH category.

BTW, I suspect an IP gauge would have let you see that there was a problem right after you first heard the clicking. An IP gauge is to a regulator like a dipstick is to an automobile engine.

Interesting that you say that. When the tech put the first stage on the machine the first thing he noticed was low Intermediate Pressure (110 as I recall?) ..which he adjusted up to 135. Then he flipped the reg over and opened the other side and found the bad HP seat. That is when he said, oh...this must be an older one from that recall and everything started making sense. After swapping the seat out he had to turn the IP back down.