First Scuba Cylinder Question

[Great Lakes Dvr.]

I am looking into my first scuba cylinder and was looking for some advice. I am trying to choose between a standard al80, and a "Neutral" al80. Is the neutral 80 worth the extra $ to shave a little weight off my belt, or should I save my money and go with the stanadard cylinder? :06:

 

[Warren_L]

If you're interested in taking weight off your belt, consider going steel. As for the AL80, they are typically a few pounds negative when full and neutral or slightly positively buoyant when near empty. I'd go steel myself.

 

[crpntr133]

There is actually little difference between a steel 80 and an N80. The big diff is that the steel is shorter. If you go HP steel then you might be talking a problem getting it fully filled. Most N80 are 3300psi
If I had to choose between the N80 and an AL80..I would go with the nuetral.

 

[wcl]

There is actually little difference between a steel 80 and an N80. The big diff is that the steel is shorter. If you go HP steel then you might be talking a problem getting it fully filled. Most N80 are 3300psi
If I had to choose between the N80 and an AL80..I would go with the nuetral.

Hi,

My wife and I recently had to make this same decision, and here's how our reasoning went (not clearly right or wrong, just how we thought it through):

- AL80s are the standard rental gear out and about where we do our best to dive as often as we can (warm places ... Caribbean, Hawaii, like that), and what is always available to rent locally if we simply decide not to lug our own (unlikely, but possible). On the principle that one should dive the gear configuration you will use as much as possible, and as new divers, we thought to go with that same AL80 for our local diving just to keep the consistency through our learning curve.

- AL80s are value priced compared to other options. Since we were buying 4 (2 each for local 2-tank diving), and getting drysuits and upgrade kits for regs, value was a good thing.

Our thoughts, for our particular situation, FWIW. YMMV.

Cheers,
Walter

 

[Mark Vlahos]

Hi,

My wife and I recently had to make this same decision, and here's how our reasoning went (not clearly right or wrong, just how we thought it through):

- AL80s are the standard rental gear out and about where we do our best to dive as often as we can (warm places ... Caribbean, Hawaii, like that), and what is always available to rent locally if we simply decide not to lug our own (unlikely, but possible). On the principle that one should dive the gear configuration you will use as much as possible, and as new divers, we thought to go with that same AL80 for our local diving just to keep the consistency through our learning curve.

- AL80s are value priced compared to other options. Since we were buying 4 (2 each for local 2-tank diving), and getting drysuits and upgrade kits for regs, value was a good thing.

Our thoughts, for our particular situation, FWIW. YMMV.

Cheers,
Walter

This is not that bad and Idea, I see the value of this. If increased air supply with a larger capacity tank is not a consideration then getting the same kind of tank you will see when diving away from home is valid. The need not to rethink how much weight you need is a good idea. The only monkey wrench in this is what about exposure protection? If you always dive in the same wetsuit, then your weight should always be the same, or at least really darn close to the same. If however, you dive in water that is different tempurature and therefore you use a different thickness wetsuit you will need to change your weight anyway.

Personally I got some steel tanks (Faber LP95's) and make adjustments from baseline. I know the differences in bouyancy of each of my wetsuits. I know the difference in bouyancy of my steel tank and can compare it with the bouyancy of an aluminum 80 when on vacation. My way requires a little more thought and occasionally more planning, but can accomplish the same thing. If I want to jump in the water using any combination of gear all I need to do is add up the numbers and I know how much weight to use.

Each way is valid, each way has advantages.

Mark Vlahos

 

[wcl]

This is not that bad and Idea, I see the value of this. If increased air supply with a larger capacity tank is not a consideration then getting the same kind of tank you will see when diving away from home is valid. The need not to rethink how much weight you need is a good idea. The only monkey wrench in this is what about exposure protection? If you always dive in the same wetsuit, then your weight should always be the same, or at least really darn close to the same. If however, you dive in water that is different tempurature and therefore you use a different thickness wetsuit you will need to change your weight anyway.

Indeed, it just removes one variable (tank) from buoyancy base adjustments, tank variable buoyancy adjustment, breathing and gas management learning, trim and tank placement, and the like.

Changing exposure protection and all the rest still applies to one's weight management.

Not a cut-and-dried decision by any means! In the end, the general ease of dealing with the base standard equipment, and the desired investment in other gear with greater impact on our diving was more of a driver. Equipping 2 divers gets pricey!

I figure if I can plan and execute my dives reliably on the AL80 gas supply, and manage the buoyancy swings with that tank, that's pretty good practice. I can eventually reward myself with more gas later ;-).

Cheers,
Walter

 

[Hoosier]

[font=바탕]In my case, I went with the traditional used AL 80 at first (local pick-up). The neutral tank is a kind of new trend, but the pricey. You just add about 4 lb more in your wet belt, wet pouch, or tank pouch. There is no difference on the weight that you need to carry because of the law of constancy of mass.[/font]



[font=바탕]In addition, IMO, at the most of time, the used AL 80 tank deal is useless if you have to pay the shipping, hydro, and VIP again. You had better buy the new one from your LDS or online dealers.[/font]

 

[mike_s]

[font=바탕]


[font=바탕]In addition, IMO, at the most of time, the used AL 80 tank deal is useless if you have to pay the shipping, hydro, and VIP again. You had better buy the new one from your LDS or online dealers.[/font]

I agree. Unless you know the person selling the tanks, like a fellow local diver, then I wouldn't buy a used tank again. The ones I bought several years ago I got for $50 bucks, but by the time I paid for Hydro, Visual, first air fill, a new valve ($45) because the old valves leaked from being old and not used, another air fill to replace the air that leaked out, etc... Not to mention al the hassle of taking them for Hydro,VIP, fills and picking the back up. I could have bought new tanks for the same or cheaper of what I had in my "used" tanks now that I had to spend all that extra $$.

 

[wmspdi]

I use a back inflate BCD (Seaquest Balance). Back inflate BCDs are wonderfull from the point that you don't feel that squeezing sensation when you add air, but they also tend to throw you on your face at the surface when using an aluminum 80 (unless it is trimmed out). As a result when I wear an aluminum 80 I have to place 2- 3 lbs shot bags in the trim pockets (on the back of my BCD). I place the remainder of my weights in the ditchable weight pouches. I don't have this problem with steel tanks. Here's why:

My steel PST E7 100s start off -10 lbs (full), and end up at about -1.5 (empty). The always negative weight of the tank kepts me upright at the surface. The difference in bouyancy between the two tanks when empty is about 6 lbs (equal to the trim weights I use for Al 80).

Therefore with my steel 100s I don't use the trim weights, and when I dive Al 80s on vaction I do use the trim weights. No heavy math to do. Steel tanks do cost about double what aluminum tanks cost, but there are benefits. I tend to be an air hog and will run out of gas before eveyone else (with all tanks being equal). My PST E7 100 is 2 inches shorter than an AL 80, but I get 100 cubic foot of air at 3442 PSI, or about 89 cubic foot (if I get a short fill) at 3000 PSI. On average my local LDS gives me 3100 to 3150 PSI for about 92 cubic foot. Since an aluminum 80 only holds 77 cubic foot (not 80 as many people think) that gives me about 15 cubic foot more air than my dive buddies, and we all run out of gas at about the same time. I made the switch because I was tired of being the "goat"... the guy that was responsible for calling the dive due to low air.

BTW- Beware if you dive with less than 8 to 10 pounds of weight when using Al 80s you may not have any ditchable weight when using steel tanks (my super-fit teenage son has that problem, and can't use my steel tanks under certain conditions).

 

[deadend]

I've got a few of the N80's and have been extremely pleased with them over my regular AL80's. They definitely dive more like steel tanks and I can tell a difference when I dive a few regular 80's after burning up three neutrals in the morning. The regulars require about four additional lbs of weight over the neutrals.

The only prob. with the N80's is making sure the tank fill dude knows that they are 3300 psi tanks and fills them accordingly. Alot of the time I have to get them to go back and top them off and sometimes they screw up the nitrox % and have to re-blend the tanks.