First Reg Set

[Marie13]

I think this notion is one of the biggest myths of ScubaBoard. It's the same reason that is often given to support buying a BP/W for recreational single tank diving.

In reality, I think the vast majority of people who go tech (and this is just my own anecdotal and very limited perspective) never realize the purported benefit being described here.

If they go tech, they end up buying new regs. They don't just buy a 1st stage and some hoses and repurpose their existing single tank reg set.

If they go tech, they may start off just buying a new wing and using their existing BP and harness. But, it doesn't take long before they end up with a second BP and harness.

I'm not saying these things are true for every single person who goes into tech. It just seems like it does apply to the vast majority.

Actually, this is what I did for my SM regs. Had an XTX50 (bought “used”- New in box) here on SB. Used it for pony reg for season. Then I started planning on SM. Was planning on buying another XTX50 when I won one at an event. Added hoses and SPGs, and I had my SM regs.

Took an AL Legend LX Supreme yoke first stage I had, had it converted to din, and that’s now pony reg with my old octo as second stage.

 

[stuartv]

I agree with most of what you are saying. Probably the biggest myth on ScubaBoard is that BP/W is a cure-all for poor diving skills which it isn't. The second is that a BP/W is this adaptable system that you can move from single to double tanks with ease. That is also false. The only reusable part is the plate which is inexpensive.

As far as regulators go, I agree with Taimen. If someone is going into tech there is no way around buying equipment, we all know that. However, I do believe (as I suspect you do also) that there is an advantage to standardization. Once you start accumulating more and more regulators you will want to service them yourself unless you have a cheap source of service. If you have the same regulators or regulators from the same family, you only need two parts kits and one set of tools. If you have different models then you need more kits and tools.

I agree with you. But, the distance between "OW, buying first reg set" to "Tech, doing own reg service" seems pretty large, to me. In the intervening "distance", there is a LOT of room for having a single tank reg set that is dedicated and also different than what you use for tech.

I just ordered a bunch of ScubaPro regs, which will be used for BM and SM doubles. I will have Dive Rite regs and a Hollis O2 reg for my deco cylinders. And different Hollis regs for my single tank reg set. I don't really see that as a problem. I could buy 6 SP service kits, or 4 SP and 2 DR service kits. No big deal. Once I buy all the tools to service the SP regs, the extra tools I might need to also do the others is a pretty small additional cost.

Anyway, I think we are pretty much on the same page. Buy good regs to start and you won't regret it. I still think buying DIN is more important than piston vs diaphragm or sealed vs unsealed...

Actually, this is what I did for my SM regs. Had an XTX50 (bought “used”- New in box) here on SB. Used it for pony reg for season. Then I started planning on SM. Was planning on buying another XTX50 when I won one at an event. Added hoses and SPGs, and I had my SM regs.

Took an AL Legend LX Supreme yoke first stage I had, had it converted to din, and that’s now pony reg with my old octo as second stage.

I was talking about taking a single tank reg set (i.e. 1 x 1st stage + 2 x 2nd stages) and adding 1 x 1st stage plus different hoses. It doesn't sound like that's what you did.

 

[Umuntu]

@stuartv, I advise my friends to avoid Scubapro regulators for the simple reason that every nut on a Scubapro regulator requires a special Scubapro tool.

I'm not talking about self service either. Because I wouldn't advise a newbie to attempt to service a MK25 which is one of the more difficult regulators to service requiring lots of special tools.

I do recommend Apeks regulators. Aqualung too. You can change second stages without needing to find or buy a special spline tool. Or damaging the nut with a wrench.

And self servicing an Apeks reg, should you ever be brave enough to venture down that path, can be done with just an o-ring pick, 2 hex spanners, a 19mm spanner (only for yoke), and a C pin wrench. Very simple to maintain. It's one of the reasons why it's popular with militaries. That, and its performance too.

 

[BoltSnap]

@stuartv, I advise my friends to avoid Scubapro regulators for the simple reason that every nut on a Scubapro regulator requires a special Scubapro tool.

I'm not talking about self service either. Because I wouldn't advise a newbie to attempt to service a MK25 which is one of the more difficult regulators to service requiring lots of special tools.

I do recommend Apeks regulators. Aqualung too. You can change second stages without needing to find or buy a special spline tool. Or damaging the nut with a wrench.

And self servicing an Apeks reg, should you ever be brave enough to venture down that path, can be done with just an o-ring pick, 2 hex spanners, a 19mm spanner (only for yoke), and a C pin wrench. Very simple to maintain. It's one of the reasons why it's popular with militaries. That, and its performance too.

I have dealt with SP since mid 90's when I owned a dive center in NY and after 2004 when I moved to Libya and started a dive school. I have used SP regulators almost exclusively most of the time and used mostly SP with some AL, Cressi, Mares and Atomic. What you said was/is never an issue during these two decades at all not only for me or the regulators in our training fleet but also for students and customers who bought SP regulators. I don't see this point as the basis for making recommendations either way at all, none.

 

[Umuntu]

I have dealt with SP since mid 90's when I owned a dive center in NY and after 2004 when I moved to Libya and started a dive school. I have used SP regulators almost exclusively most of the time and used mostly SP with some AL, Cressi, Mares and Atomic. What you said was/is never an issue during these two decades at all not only for me or the regulators in our training fleet but also for students and customers who bought SP regulators. I don't see this point as the basis for making recommendations either way at all, none.

@BurhanMuntasser I respect your point of view. But as a dive school you would have access to, and would invest in, special Scubapro tools to service your dive locker.

An individual diver does not have access to Scubapro tools, nor should she be expected to buy a special spanner just to disconnect a second stage. Nor should she have to visit her LDS for the simple privilege of the same.

I learned the hard way. My first set of regulators was a Scubapro MK25/S600, which I still own (but probably not for much longer) … I now use a selection of Aqualung diaphragm and Apeks regulators, which I service myself.

 

[BoltSnap]

An individual diver does not have access to Scubapro tools, nor should she be expected to buy a special spanner just to disconnect a second stage. Nor should she have to visit her LDS for the simple privilege of the same.

If you read what I said in its entirety, you will read that I said includes my clients/students and customers who bought SP equipment too. They don't own the Scubapro special wrench and it was never an issue. You can actually remove the LP ss hose without the tool very easily no issues at all. The greater majority of divers who need second stage hose change, SP or anything else, head to their LDS if there are any issues with their hoses and the LDS will change them for the customer anyways. No customer has lost any sleep or diving worrying about not having the special tool AFAIK. Heck, if this is bothering you so much, buy a non-SP hose in place of SP hose and not worry about it. It certainly isn't a reason to not buy a SP regulator or to get rid of one just because of the ridges on the second stage LP hose.

 

[buddhasummer]

It's pretty hard to beat an Apeks first stage for simplicity and performance.

 

[ams511]

An individual diver does not have access to Scubapro tools, nor should she be expected to buy a special spanner just to disconnect a second stage. Nor should she have to visit her LDS for the simple privilege of the same.

The wrench is under $20, so it is not that huge of an expense. However, I do agree that there is no purpose to using that type of nut.

 

[ams511]

Heck, if this is bothering you so much, buy a non-SP hose in place of SP hose and not worry about it. It certainly isn't a reason to not buy a SP regulator or to get rid of one just because of the ridges on the second stage LP hose.

The spine nut that holds the air barrel in the second stages uses that type of fitting also.

 

[ams511]

It's pretty hard to beat an Apeks first stage for simplicity and performance.

or their second stages, unless you count the clones.