First pool dive with hp steel 100's horizontal trim issues

[stano]

The clip and line you are attaching to your chest Dring is called a choker. This is used only when getting entering and exiting the water. I use these for boat diving. You disconnect them once in the water and use only the bungee.

The way Edd Sorenson dives per the way my buddy was trained by him (in December) is with the choker attached for the whole dive. If you don't use the choker the tank could only ever hang directly at your side?

Since on the nomad the bungee is on your back, near your shoulder blades and runs under your arm I don't see anyway that the bottle could move forward at all without the choker? I used to dive with just the bungee but when my buddy got back from training he exposed me to the choker. This is how he was taught. I use the choker to keep it forward and the bungee to pull it tight and align the valve handle.

If I disconnect the choker the bottle could only move backwards towards my feet. I do know that some people do dive with no choker but in my case it seems to help. I suppose this is just a different way to dive sidemount. It's not wrong it's just different than how you dive. Thanks for the comments. I will keep tweaking and keep working on improving my skills. I do feel that my last pool session was much better and will hopefully continue to improve.

Stano

 

[stano]

[QUOTE=Colliam7; The static line arrangement, that I think, but am not sure, the OP refers to,

Yes it is a static line like your picture.

Stano

 

[cavemn]

I am using the term choker to refer to the static loop. It's useful when donning SM tanks out of the water as the bungee is not meant to support the weight of the tanks. I have not needed them when diving regardless of tank size and type. I only use them when entering and exiting the water from a boat. I would refer to this device as a hazard in a cave. I don't see maneuvering through some restrictions without my tanks moving and/or being pushed in front of me which negates the use of these static line devices. I would also put tank boots and split fins into the cave hazard category.

 

[Colliam7]

Back from the pool with some better results this time. I moved my lower offset D up on my butt plate about 2". I also moved my chest D up an inch or so. I moved the cam to the absolute bottom of the tank, in fact it is on the boot so I don't think it could get any lower. Ended up with 2 x 2lbs on the front of my shoulder.

First, my compliments on making a concerted effort to tweak your gear, to better understand what differences these changes may make in your trim. In essence, what you have done is moved the weight of your tanks 'up' - i.e. toward your head, when in a horzontal position, and added weight (4 lb) where it will do the most good, to bring your head down a bit. Was there a reason you put the weight on the front rather than high on your back? Not disagreeing with the action at all, just curious. I have threaded a couple of weights on my front straps at time, and at oithers simply tie-wrapped a couple of 2 lb weights on the back, and haven't seen much difference.

I have uploaded a video to youtube if anyone would like to critique I am receptive to comments, criticism and changes. . . . I am loving SM.

Although I am biased, I think that most (not all, but the majority) of people who try it, love it. I have had several BM divers tell me how much more stable they feel in a SM rig, compared to their BM rig. It is not that they were unstable in BM, they just had to work a little harder harder at station-keeping.

With regard to the video: a) your horizontal trim looks reasonable, AND b) you are VERY BRAVE, to upload to ScubaBoard of all places a link to a video showing you with what most certainly looks like a second stage dangling in front of you.

 

[Colliam7]

I am using the term choker to refer to the static loop.

And, that's what I suspected. Thanks for clarifying.

I would refer to this device as a hazard in a cave. I don't see maneuvering through some restrictions without my tanks moving and/or being pushed in front of me which negates the use of these static line devices.

And, in that environment, your point is well taken. As I said, I wasn't trying to debate what someone does with their rig, just trying to be sure I understood what the OP was talking about. For open water diving, I leave them attached to my chest / shoulder D-rings, because there really isn't any particular reason to unclip them. In a different environment, I would possibly do things a little differently.

 

[denisegg]

And, that's what I suspected. Thanks for clarifying. And, in that environment, your point is well taken. As I said, I wasn't trying to debate what someone does with their rig, just trying to be sure I understood what the OP was talking about. For open water diving, I leave them attached to my chest / shoulder D-rings, because there really isn't any particular reason to unclip them. In a different environment, I would possibly do things a little differently.

I leave them clipped and I cave dive in small restrictions....they are only stationary...why the hell would you leave a tank behind..best way to get your ass killled

 

[Dive-aholic]

The way Edd Sorenson dives per the way my buddy was trained by him (in December) is with the choker attached for the whole dive. If you don't use the choker the tank could only ever hang directly at your side?

Since on the nomad the bungee is on your back, near your shoulder blades and runs under your arm I don't see anyway that the bottle could move forward at all without the choker? I used to dive with just the bungee but when my buddy got back from training he exposed me to the choker. This is how he was taught. I use the choker to keep it forward and the bungee to pull it tight and align the valve handle.

If I disconnect the choker the bottle could only move backwards towards my feet. I do know that some people do dive with no choker but in my case it seems to help. I suppose this is just a different way to dive sidemount. It's not wrong it's just different than how you dive. Thanks for the comments. I will keep tweaking and keep working on improving my skills. I do feel that my last pool session was much better and will hopefully continue to improve.

Stano

With the way you have described this here you will have a very difficult time getting your cylinders trimmed out. This is the first I've hear of moving chest d-rings to adjust trim. The chest d-rings are there to clip your lights and 2ndan stages to. They are positioned based on your body type not on the trim of your cylinders. A choker is not needed to hold the cylinder forward. This can be done in a much simpler way, and cheaper, way. It seems you are overcomplicating things.

 

[Colliam7]

I leave them clipped and I cave dive in small restrictions....they are only stationary...why the hell would you leave a tank behind..best way to get your ass killled

Hey, don't ask me, ask Cavemn. I keep mine clipped. Seriously, I didn't read his post as indicating that he would 'leave a tank behind', only that he wanted the flexibility, in penetrating tight restrictions, to put his tanks through without them being clipped to his harness. But, again, I won't speak for someone else.

 

[Colliam7]

This is the first I've hear of moving chest d-rings to adjust trim.

And, I will admit that I have never done that, nor heard of anyone doing it, nor suggested it to a student. But, if it works for the OP . . .

The chest d-rings are there to clip your lights and 2ndan stages to. They are positioned based on your body type not on the trim of your cylinders.

And, they can get kinds 'busy' with the other things that are clipped there, plus moving them might change the ease of access to back-up lights, etc. My take on what the OP has done is that he is trying different ways to adjust his rig to achieve optimal trim. He may try some things that appear to 'work', but have other consequences that make the solution not optimal in the long term. But, at least he is trying different things, and evaluating the outcome in a somewhat methodical manner.

The goal has been to shift his CG 'forward' (toward his head), and he has moved his tanks up and added trim weights that provide a weight 'moment' to facilitate this. One thing he hasn't done yet that cavemn suggested early on is remove the boots, and shift the cam band even lower. As cavemen also mentioned he could also change to pipe clamps which would allow him to move the bottom attachment as far down the tank as possible.

 

[cavemn]

I leave them clipped and I cave dive in small restrictions....they are only stationary...why the hell would you leave a tank behind..best way to get your ass killled

Who is losing tanks? I've been in conditions like extreme flow of 3900 Lps and squeezed through restrictions breaking my dry suit inflator and never lost a tank. I also dive with back mounted stages which need to squeeze down between my back and SM tanks in tight spots. This doesn't work properly with chokers.

I can understand an OW only diver feeling more comfortable with the chokers. I also understand SM is becoming more popular with OW divers. Backmount would be my preference if I did a bunch of OW diving.