First pool dive with hp steel 100's horizontal trim issues

[cavemn]

OK, for my sanity I weighed an F1 and a Slipstream. Underwater I can tell the difference. It turns out the F1 weighs 3.8 lbs vs. Sliptream 2.6 lbs that I prefer.

I am also adjusting my buoyancy with the wing and not flying my drysuit. I only add enough in the dry suit to eliminate squeeze. I find the dry suit valves cannot adjust as quickly as the wing. With my new D6 I am not adding much air at all compared to my Hollis dry suit.

 

[denisegg]

"Everything" plays a part in balance in sidemount. Your rig, your tanks, your drysuit, your fins. Even from one day to the next. I initially bought a Dive Rite Nomad Express "horse shoe wing" and was very happy until the first time the wing held air and wouldn't deflate. The shoulder straps across the wing, the tank bungees all played a part in it. I struggled for a while to remedy this by tying bungee string to the shoulder straps to aleviate the tension on the wing so the air could escape. I thought I had resolved the issue until the last time I dived with it. I gave up and tried a Hollis SMS "360 wing" that had been altered by Cave Adventurers which altered the shoulder straps, the inflator and the bungee system. The first time I tried it, I felt like I was floating on air. Unbelieveable!! It "ALL" makes a difference.

 

[Dive-aholic]

OK, for my sanity I weighed an F1 and a Slipstream. Underwater I can tell the difference. It turns out the F1 weighs 3.8 lbs vs. Sliptream 2.6 lbs that I prefer.

I am also adjusting my buoyancy with the wing and not flying my drysuit. I only add enough in the dry suit to eliminate squeeze. I find the dry suit valves cannot adjust as quickly as the wing. With my new D6 I am not adding much air at all compared to my Hollis dry suit.

I also adjust buoyancy with my wing. I have had my wing fail and not hold air a couple of times, once about 2500' from the exit. If I was depending on bubble management in my wing to keep my horizontal I would have left a huge trail of silt behind me.

I initially bought a Dive Rite Nomad Express "horse shoe wing" and was very happy until the first time the wing held air and wouldn't deflate. The shoulder straps across the wing, the tank bungees all played a part in it. I struggled for a while to remedy this by tying bungee string to the shoulder straps to aleviate the tension on the wing so the air could escape. I thought I had resolved the issue until the last time I dived with it.

Wish you would have talked to me about this issue. There's an easy and cheap fix for this. Costs less than $5 and no more air trapping.

 

[stano]

Back from the pool with some better results this time. I moved my lower offset D up on my butt plate about 2". I also moved my chest D up an inch or so. I moved the cam to the absolute bottom of the tank, in fact it is on the boot so I don't think it could get any lower. Ended up with 2 x 2lbs on the front of my shoulder. Also using my old fins (ScubaPro Twin Jets) as I had to send the F1's back to DRIS for a smaller size. Problem is now I don't know if the fins were half the battle. Trim is pretty decent now. I am pretty heavy however as I have to have a fair bit of air in my BC to get off the bottom. I am only wearing a 3mm farmer john so I am likely not that bouyant. I may look at a 5mm full suit to give me a little lift and possibly get rid of some of the air in the BC.

I also tried a set of aluminum 80's for half the pool time. On the aluminums had 4lbs on each tank. Trim was as good on the the steels with no weight.

I have uploaded a video to youtube if anyone would like to critique I am receptive to comments, criticism and changes. Thanks for all the help so far. I am loving SM.

Stano

Link to video

Sidemount in pool - YouTube

 

[Dive-aholic]

I'm not sure what moving your chest d-rings has to do with trim. The cylinders shouldn't depend on them for trim. Did you try to just hover? It's easy to maintain trim when you're swimming around but I didn't see you just hang out motionless. that's the true test. Also, the tops of your cylinders are sitting too low. That could be part of the issue. The cylinders have the most concentrated mass and will "try" to balance out horizontally, pushing your body to an angle if necessary.

 

[cavemn]

Back from the pool with some better results this time. I moved my lower offset D up on my butt plate about 2". I also moved my chest D up an inch or so.

Your chest ring has nothing to do with the position of your cylinders. The bungee connects the top of the cylinder to your Nomad. To bring the tanks up in the front you need to put another knot or two in the bungee system on each side.

"Lower offset Dring on your buttplate"? You mean the rails? Moving the rails lower and moving the cam band lower offset each other. In other words, nothing really moved. Move the rails back up.

What exactly do you plan to do with this setup and split fins?

 

[stano]

I moved the "rails" (which are actually offset D rings recommended by Edd at cave adventurers to replace the factory rails) forward or towards my head. I gained about two inches of forward tank movement. That seemed to help.

The chest d ring which i have a choker on also moved forward about an inch or so. It moved towards my head.

The split fins are my old fins as I had to send my F1's back for a smaller size. I do not intend to use these for sm just using what I had at the moment. You cannot frog kick in these at all that's for sure.

Thanks
Stano

 

[stano]

Just to clarify, my buddy and I are using the setup from Edd which uses a string and clip (from the valve) to the chest d ring, a bungee to the valve and a clip to the bottom rail. He just did the sidemount course with Edd and this is how he set it up for him. I get the impression that you guys maybe don't use a clip to the chest d ring. Am I reading that correctly?

Stano

 

[cavemn]

Just to clarify, my buddy and I are using the setup from Edd which uses a string and clip (from the valve) to the chest d ring, a bungee to the valve and a clip to the bottom rail. He just did the sidemount course with Edd and this is how he set it up for him. I get the impression that you guys maybe don't use a clip to the chest d ring. Am I reading that correctly?

Stano

The clip and line you are attaching to your chest Dring is called a choker. This is used only when getting entering and exiting the water. I use these for boat diving. You disconnect them once in the water and use only the bungee.

 

[Colliam7]

I am intrigued by the exchange, and want to be sure I understand to what the OP is referring.

Just to clarify, my buddy and I are using the setup from Edd which uses a string and clip (from the valve) to the chest d ring, a bungee to the valve and a clip to the bottom rail.

I think, but am by no means certain, that I understand what stano did. A length of static line with a bolt snap attached, is looped around the tank valve, before the reg is attached. The bolt snap is then clipped to a chest/shoulder D-ring. The length of the static line remains fixed, so if you move your chest / shoulder D-ring up, you pull the tank 'up' - toward the diver's head when in a horizontal position. The bungee then loops around the tank valve and pulls it into the chest. In the water, the static line / bolt snap remain attached to the chest / shoulder D-ring. The bungee is wrapped around the tank valve, but nothing is attached to it.

The clip and line you are attaching to your chest Dring is called a choker. This is used only when getting entering and exiting the water. I use these for boat diving. You disconnect them once in the water and use only the bungee.

Not necessarily. You can disconnect the clips in the water if you want. But, you can also leave them attached, and they do influence the position ('height') of the tank valve. What we may have is a matter of semantics, in terms of what you refer to as a 'choker'. Just for clarity, I don't call these loops a 'choker'. Rather, a 'choker' is what is used to cinch the top bolt snap on the tank rigging close into the neck of the tank valve, so that when the bolt snap is attached, to the bungee, or to the ring on a ring bungee, it holds the tank valve in tight to the body. At least this is what DR refers to as chokers. They can be cinched down, by pulling the end of the strap tight, around the neck of the valve, hence the reference to 'choker'. The static line arrangement, that I think, but am not sure, the OP refers to, does not cinch down.


My point is not to agree or disagree with what someone may want to do with their own rig, rather to better understand what the OP means.