hambleto
Club Web Master
RJP3:
I just got the following e-mail from John:
First NJ Dive: Pinta. What to expect?
- Thread starter Matt19380
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
I just got the following e-mail from John:
hambleto:
Yeah - perhaps I mis-spoke when I said Tuna Seazure "blew an engine"
What I guess I meant was "having engine trouble" - sort of layman's terms.
Didn't mean to "rock the boat" so to speak!
TSherman
Contributor
you really need to carry a pony bottle either mounted on your back or slung like a deco bottle for safety. It would be irresponsible for your instructor to tell you otherwise. The Pinta was my first NJ dive experience and is the favorite in-shore wreck of the Independance II.
If the instructor would let you I doubt if the boat Captain really would, and at the end of the day he is the guy who decides who goes and who stays, not the instructor. It would be adviseable to just rent one to be safe, wouldn't want to miss your first dive.....or run out of air!
If the instructor would let you I doubt if the boat Captain really would, and at the end of the day he is the guy who decides who goes and who stays, not the instructor. It would be adviseable to just rent one to be safe, wouldn't want to miss your first dive.....or run out of air!
ScottNY
Contributor
TSherman:
Hmmm.
It's somewhat difficult for me to disagree here, because 'mostly' I don't. Though in at least this case, I'd say it's not wholly irresponsible. I agree it may be a better idea to get properly rigged up with a second air source and be trained in using it first, however...
* If you mean it's irresponsible in terms of maybe showing up and not being able to dive, sure. That I'd agree with. However, the instructor can check this easily enough.
* In terms of diving, NJ boats are the only place, (maybe there's others), that require this. Most of the world seems to get along fine without this.
* There's a collection of threads elsewhere on the board that debate, (some with all the wonderful heat of battle that online discussions can have), as to whether pony's are really safer or if in some cases they may actually cause more problems than they solve for basic recreational diving. Or if simply training better for out of air emergencies with a buddy vs. the added complexity of managing another gas source is better. As with so many things things, my belief is that the answer here is, "it depends." If you're likely to be diving with pick-up buddies you don't know well, it seems clear enough that there's an increased value in an increased abilty to self-rescue. This ability may also be valuable in ANY case, but perhaps not quite so much so with a reliable buddy.
Personally, I've got a pony tank and will obviously bring it on NJ boat dives. However, I didn't have one in Bonaire last year or in Aruba a couple of months ago or in Florida where I dive frequently. Most recreational divers don't have them most of the time. I think they're good, but they're not necessarily necessary and shouldn't be necessary with a good buddy system. It's true enough that the colder temps and lower vis in NJ do make for a more challenging environment then some of these other locations. However, a properly planned dive with a decent instructor, (or is that descent instructor... sorry, bad pun), focused on the student, that's going just barely into the zone often considered a "deep" dive shouldn't - in my opinion - really be classified as irresponsible.
If you do a search on here for "pony safety" "backup air" or similar you should be able to find the threads. They make for some very interesting discussion.
Scott
TSherman
Contributor
My meaning was entirely based on not being able to dive, and trusting in someone else to speak for your 100 plus dollars. I would never show up anywhere with out one. If I am not diving doubles I have a pony. I am 6'5", 250 pounds, so the additional weight is not an issue.
The max cost for renting a pony should be $15. If its more, e-mail me, I will rent you one! While the rest of the world dives without them, I would have to say that NJ diving isn't the rest of the world. People, especially new divers may breath there air down a bit more than in controlled situations, or warm water situations. A pony can never hurt to have along!
The max cost for renting a pony should be $15. If its more, e-mail me, I will rent you one! While the rest of the world dives without them, I would have to say that NJ diving isn't the rest of the world. People, especially new divers may breath there air down a bit more than in controlled situations, or warm water situations. A pony can never hurt to have along!
Just so that I'm clear on why people are opposed to ponies:
Is it that they simply believe a diver will see it as an additional air supply which can be used to extend the dive? Is there some other hidden danger? Or, is it simply that they prefer doubles?
I have a regular dive buddy who is pretty good (relative to my rent-a-buddies). But, he's a newbie too like me. There have been moments where we are in plain sight of each other but I couldn't get his attention. For example - if one of us is leading the other. Or, sometimes he'll do a swim-through on a structure where I prefer to do a swim-around. I can still see him, but we're out of reach. We haven't had an incident yet. But, that is the sort of situation that has me thinking about having an alternate air source.
I trust the buddy system to a certain extent. But, when it hits the fan, ultimately I'm the one responsible for me. Accidents don't care that my OW book said my buddy is supposed to help me out.
Is it that they simply believe a diver will see it as an additional air supply which can be used to extend the dive? Is there some other hidden danger? Or, is it simply that they prefer doubles?
I have a regular dive buddy who is pretty good (relative to my rent-a-buddies). But, he's a newbie too like me. There have been moments where we are in plain sight of each other but I couldn't get his attention. For example - if one of us is leading the other. Or, sometimes he'll do a swim-through on a structure where I prefer to do a swim-around. I can still see him, but we're out of reach. We haven't had an incident yet. But, that is the sort of situation that has me thinking about having an alternate air source.
I trust the buddy system to a certain extent. But, when it hits the fan, ultimately I'm the one responsible for me. Accidents don't care that my OW book said my buddy is supposed to help me out.
Matt P:
You hit the nail on the head!
When it comes down to it, you're your own best buddy.
ScottNY
Contributor
Matt P:
Those are some of the arguments others have made. Also, some have said that if you don't sling it in front, there's other issues regarding ability to turn the valve if it's mounted upright, the fact that some just use a pressure gauge off the 1st stage, so really can't view it during the dive, and there's some other reasons as well. (Including comments such as "you might as well just dive with doubles, etc.)I was kind of blown away when I saw how much discussion and difference of opinion there was/is in those various threads.
As for myself, I agree - for basic recreational diving - it's better to have a pony than not, as long as you properly test it out and know how to use it. At the same time, I don't think it's a big deal to take a dive or two without it when you're going with an instructor in what's to be a relatively close in buddy monitoring situation.
TSherman
Contributor
Being you own best buddy is the best idea. Doubles aren't a bad idea either. I currently own 131's with a pony set up and a set of doubled 100's with a sling bottle I hang on a equipment line.
Do what makes you comfortable, but I doubt you will even notice the 19 to 30 cubic foot pony on your back, slung or wherever you choose to put it! Have an awesome dive!
Tim
Do what makes you comfortable, but I doubt you will even notice the 19 to 30 cubic foot pony on your back, slung or wherever you choose to put it! Have an awesome dive!
Tim
Bobby_M
Contributor
On the few trips I was actually able to dive on (prone to seasickeness), I've not been hassled about not having a pony. However, it was always with a buddy that occasionally dive-mastered on the boat. I would guess that most boats would take issue with it if they don't know your competence.
Here are my pro/cons for doubles vs pony.
Doubles... you pretty much need to own and bring two tanks anyway. No need to swap regs/BC between tanks between dives. Heavier to carry out of the water. Higher cost (maybe).
Pony... This is actually a 3rd tank you'll have to rent/own since you need to primary sources for one trip minimum. Anything under 40cf will have no future use as a stage bottle if you ever get into staged deco. It's probably cheaper than bands/manifold.
Bobby
Here are my pro/cons for doubles vs pony.
Doubles... you pretty much need to own and bring two tanks anyway. No need to swap regs/BC between tanks between dives. Heavier to carry out of the water. Higher cost (maybe).
Pony... This is actually a 3rd tank you'll have to rent/own since you need to primary sources for one trip minimum. Anything under 40cf will have no future use as a stage bottle if you ever get into staged deco. It's probably cheaper than bands/manifold.
Bobby
Similar threads
