First incident - free flow

[elan]

ComputerJoe I eventually plan to upgrade to the doubles. While purchasing the tanks and regs I had it in mind. But it will take time and ... money. I want to do some research on the options available which plate, which wind , harness etc.

 

[ComputerJoe]

A little off subject but in our waters I do not like the policy of donating the reg in your mouth and then having to switch to your secondary air source. I like the fact that you did not do this and donated your pony instead.

I completely see the logic of this in temperate water but in the stress of having two divers without regulators, the donated reg is usually flooded when the distressed diver gets it. Then he\she will probally press the purge and really suck on it pretty hard for a while. This IS a combination that could easily cause another freeze up and start yet another freeflow. Now the the donator has to put an octo in his mouth that is absolutely flooded and needs to clear it by exhaling, not by the purge button to minimize the potential of it freeflowing as well.

FYI: With a SS back plate I need no lead in the pool diving a single 80 with a BP adapter. It will take weight off the waist and move it up higher on the body, possible making you slightly heavy on top. Diving HP tanks you might not need the extra weight at all.

 

[jmyabeer]

ComputerJoe,

My understanding was that he did pass off his primary. Why is not having a reg in your mouth stressful? You know where the regulators are. If you practice, you can easily pass off a reg without flooding it. There is also a big difference between a forceful purge and a short "burp".

Why are you guys having so many problems with freeflows? I don't have any problem with Apeks DS4s and Scubapro G250HP seconds (usual bottom temperatures for me are 34F-42F). I also like to purge a reg before I breathe off of it - who knows what crap is inside.

Cheers,
Jason.

 

[TSandM]

As anyone who knows my diving affiliations will know, I do not dive with a pony, but the one place where I can see the logic is in very cold water, and for precisely the reason this case illustrates. If I were to dive a pony, I would necklace the pony reg, just as the OP has done. A bungied backup reg is a very nice self-rescue device (although perhaps not as much of one if the valve is off. I think I would leave mine on.). A 30 cf pony should be adequate rescue gas for a 100 foot dive -- 40 cf is rock bottom for 100 fsw, and that's assuming gas for TWO people and stressed consumption.

However, if you don't have a backup reg on your primary, your consistent configuration should be with the pony bottle, IMHO. And perhaps it is -- I can't find anything in the thread that says that the OP sometimes dives without his pony.

It sounds like this situation was handled very well, and some lessons were learned. With more practice on air-sharing ascents, they will be smoother, and you will have the option of shutting down the other fellow's reg, which reduces the noise and chaos factor, and helps everybody get calm. But that's something you shouldn't do unless you are quite sure that the two of you can get to the surface together while sharing gas. It is a skill we all ought to practice regularly.

 

[elan]

TSandM thanks for your support of Pony This config is the only redundant config I can use at this time. I dive with Pony all the time unless I make a dive with one of my buddies who dives doubles and we dive shallow ~ 40 ft. But I consider putting the octo back.

I do not really feel uncomfortable without the reg in my mouth. We will be practicing this situation few more times in shallow water to nail down the procedures.

I did pass my primary reg which I have on a 5' hose. It was really comfortable to have that long hose while we were ascending. I usually clean my reg exhaling (w/0 purging). Shutting down valves is down the road and we will be doing it (buddy or self) when we feel comfortable with the basic things in cold environment with gloves on. I know it's possible to warm up the reg this way and then try again but that skill has yet to be worked on.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Besides the noise and chaos factor, shutting down the tank valve on an uncontrollable reg free-flow saves precious breathing gas for both of you (should you need it) --just don't waste it by letting all that breathing gas expire. A tricky skill that should be practiced as well --learning how to breath off a free-flowing reg by feathering/modulating the tank valve on & off while performing a CESA. . .

 

[Belmont]

Besides the noise and chaos factor, shutting down the tank valve on an uncontrollable reg free-flow saves precious breathing gas for both of you (should you need it) --just don't waste it by letting all that breathing gas expire. A tricky skill that should be practiced as well --learning how to breath off a free-flowing reg by feathering/modulating the tank valve on & off while performing a CESA. . .

I alluded to that in the begining. I'm surprised no one else mentioned it before. You speak of experience Kevin.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I alluded to that in the begining. I'm surprised no one else mentioned it before. You speak of experience Kevin.

Catastrophic free-flow when the cracking adjustment knob on my 2nd stage blew-out at 20' deep in Cozumel Aug 2006, during a weight check, single tank supply only. Simply switched over to my necklace bungied back-up reg and feathered/modulated the tank valve while ascending to the surface.

Also might want to consider this equipment option:

In-Line Shutoff Slide Valve - Supplied by OmniSwivel International, this very high quality shutoff valve fits in-line between your low-pressure hose and second stage regulator. The shutoff valve opens and closes very quickly by sliding (ON is toward the Second Stage) , and provides positive tactile feedback when operated. Used to prevent gas loss from dribbling or free flowing second stage or rebreather ADV, or whenever the ability to very rapidly stop gas flow is required. The regulator first stage should also have an OPV if the shutoff is used to disable the only pressure relief path.

Adapters and Special Fittings - Dive Gear Express (scroll down the page to find item)

 

[elan]

ComputerJoe,

My understanding was that he did pass off his primary. Why is not having a reg in your mouth stressful? You know where the regulators are. If you practice, you can easily pass off a reg without flooding it. There is also a big difference between a forceful purge and a short "burp".

Why are you guys having so many problems with freeflows? I don't have any problem with Apeks DS4s and Scubapro G250HP seconds (usual bottom temperatures for me are 34F-42F). I also like to purge a reg before I breathe off of it - who knows what crap is inside.

Cheers,
Jason.

Yes it should not be a problem with a good reg.

We were practicing today at 40 ft all those things, passing the regs breathing from a free flowing reg (with purge button) in 43F water and even after approx 20 seconds of free flowing the reg was not frozen and stopped flowing when the button was released. Those were my FH VI and his SP MK17. We were trying to pass it in different ways mouthpiece up and down and they have not started flowing.

 

[TSandM]

Well, the cool result of this incident is that you guys are down there practicing these skills! I think we all ought to practice air sharing, and air sharing ascents, more than we do.