First Dive w/o a DM

[Web Monkey]

Let's just look at the last two bolded statements above. Two of your freshly minted OW divers whom you have told lack experience should stand on a far away beach that they have read and asked questions about and remembering you telling them they do not have experience they should make the decision on the best plan instead of the local guide that actually knows the site and it varying conditions?

A number of years ago, I would have agreed with you. However as I've learned how incredibly variable the skill-level is for DMs, I've discovered that the only thing I can really rely in is a little local knowledge of "where the cool stuff is." And honestly, after watching any number of them annoy the wildlife, I'd rather they didn't do that either.

And really, if the diver isn't qualified for the dive without a DM, they shouldn't do it with the DM. What happens if the DM drops dead, vanishes or has a sudden attack of stupidity or incompetence?

Terry

 

[idocsteve]

I think the last thing you would want is a student who is afraid to ask you a question

I am currently developing a program for snorkeling and skin diving that will be just as thorough and safety centered as my scuba classes.

Sometimes a 2x4 is more effective than a feather. A 2x4 gets peoples attention and then they are able to hear what is being said.

Never mind a student being afraid to ask a question.

If that 2x4 is combined with a scuba/snorkeling course...the students will be afraid to surface!

 

[schaffld]

Amazing as it may seem, not everyone approaches scuba with the same intrinsic motivation and desire. I see a course like Jim Lapenta's as being one perfectly suited to someone who does have that internal drive already inherently wired into their approach to scuba. That's great, the right course to fit the right student.

I am certainly not advocating a standard that completely neglects safety, but the standard that Mr. Lapenta expects from his students would most likely drive away the people who have only a casual or moderate interest in scuba. There is an entirely different group of people out there who don't approach scuba with that same level of enthusiasm to attend such a comprehensive course. They may be perfectly happy to dive with a guide and be lead along a site like a flock of sheep throughout the entirety of their diving experience. There is an equally important place in scuba for these people as there is for those with more incentive to reach a different standard of knowledge and ability by the end of their entry-level course.

Many of those sheep do eventually develop into that safe, skilled, responsible, confident, and knowledgeable diver when effectively motivated, encouraged, and inspired by his/her peers (instructors, guides, buddies, SB posters, etc). I don't see mockery or ridicule as an effective means to nurture this development... okay, I will concede that the occasional 2x4 has its place, but that should definitely be the exception. Slapping people in the face with pictures of bloated bodies of drowned divers or once healthy young men and women now confined to wheelchairs with tubes protruding from various orifices has questionable results at best and could very well be counterproductive.

 

[idocsteve]

I am certainly not advocating a standard that completely neglects safety, but the standard that Mr. Lapenta expects from his students would most likely drive away the people who have only a casual or moderate interest in scuba.

Another great post that says what I'm thinking better than I can say it.

If Scuba Diving courses were as comprehensive, and lengthy, and expensive as Jim's course there'd be a lot less people Scuba Diving.

Sure there'd probably be less accidents too...but it's the good old "risk vs benefit" thing again.

 

[SCUBASailor]

The 9th dive for both my 17 year old son and me was unsupervised. A very experienced friend was spearfishing about 100' away, but at that distance, he was of no help to us. It was very liberating.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Another great post that says what I'm thinking better than I can say it.

If Scuba Diving courses were as comprehensive, and lengthy, and expensive as Jim's course there'd be a lot less people Scuba Diving.

Sure there'd probably be less accidents too...but it's the good old "risk vs benefit" thing again.

Expensive? I charge $289.00 for my OW course and that includes books. I do need a min of 2 people for this but other than them needing their own mask, fins, snorkel, and boots by the time checkouts roll around I think it's a pretty reasonable price. They also need to rent their checkout gear but they do that separately through the shop. He charges 75 for the weekend. My price includes 16 hours classroom, 16 hours pool, use of pool gear, and I train until I feel the student is ready for OW. If that means an extra session or two or even a private session to work on a particular issue that is done at my expense.

For what I call executive(private) lessons the cost goes up to $400 and includes the same hours but I will travel to the students home(local) for classroom if that is what they want, use my pool or one of their choice, and do checkouts wherever they want. If it is other than the usual places I use then they must pay my expenses (travel, meals, lodging, etc). Again not a bad deal.

BTW I also give significant discounts for military (active or vets), police, fire, EMS, and other public safety personnel.

 

[idocsteve]

Expensive? I charge $289.00 for my OW course and that includes books. I do need a min of 2 people for this but other than them needing their own mask, fins, snorkel, and boots by the time checkouts roll around I think it's a pretty reasonable price.

Yes Jim, that's a very reasonable price.

I mistakenly assumed that your fees would be far greater due to the more extensive training that you require. Now that you summarize your course, I see that it's not all that much different than a typical OW course.

Please accept my apologies in this regard.

Edit

You really spread the material out.

My price includes 16 hours classroom, 16 hours pool, use of pool gear

My class is 6-8 weeks with min of 32 hours of instruction before checkouts.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Except we include rescue skills (panicked diver, unconscious diver from depth, rescue tows, etc), doff and don, bailout, and numerous task loading exercises like gear exchange while buddy breathing, buoyancy control from scuba session one, and the instructor presents all the material. Homework or self study merely reinforces what is presented not replaces it. This is agency wide for us.

 

[Splitlip]

Jim, I think it's great that you give such weight to the safety of new divers, and it sounds like you run a really good thorough course, and I respect that. I haven't disagreed with anything you've said- I've disagreed with how you've said it.

It's my opinion and experience that sometimes the medium or tone can obscure the message. I think the last thing you would want is a student who is afraid to ask you a question and instead ends up masking an insecurity.

My condolences about your wife.

Nicely said Jen.

You have studied Mcluhan?
He never envisioned the internet. LOL.

 

[Splitlip]

Except we include rescue skills (panicked diver, unconscious diver from depth, rescue tows, etc), doff and don, bailout, and numerous task loading exercises like gear exchange while buddy breathing, buoyancy control from scuba session one, and the instructor presents all the material. Homework or self study merely reinforces what is presented not replaces it. This is agency wide for us.

And Jim, you have my utmost admiration for that. Wish that my daughter had those experiences with an instructor rather than dear old Dad.