First attempt at HID light...need info and advice

[kawaboy]

Hello all

I'm in the middle of my latest project (HID canister light) and I have run into a couple of obstacles regarding the test tube and the ballast.

The acrylic caps turned out really well and I am in the process of turning the slug out of aluminum and I need some dimensions before I continue. I have a copy of the Divelight Companion and are using their dimensions.

Materials:

90mm OD PVC water pipe for canister 5mm wall thickness
20mm clear acrylic for caps
Reflector from an old Eveready Dolphin torch
Light kit as below
d cell NiMH x 10
Aluminium for slug
Misc items like switches, boots, cable, and various bits from my odds and ends box
I'm still looking for something that will house the reflector.

I don't want to reinvent the wheel so any proprietary bits will have to be purchased

The Dive right tubes are approx 30mm x 50mm and these are a bit on the short side to accommodate the globe. I am still waiting for a reply from the Halcyon dealer here in Oz for their TT dimensions.

The globe I am using has an H3 base (22mm diam) and the globe is 37mm long, measured from the front of the base to the tip of the globe. As close as I can figure, I will need a TT at least 65mm long on the inside.

The light I am using is an automotive 50w conversion kit available on ebay.

SUPER BRIGHT 50W XENON HID KIT H1 H3 H7 4300K 6000K 55W - eBay (item 300348030883 end time Sep-24-09 00:21:43 PDT)

(No vested interest)

Would anyone on the board be able to point me in the right direction as far as sourcing these test tubes?

Re: Ballast.

Has anyone played around with this style of ballast lights before? I want to mount the ballast in the canister and the head will be about 1.8m away. I contacted the seller and they have "tested" the ballast at a distance of 1.6m away from the globe so I think it should be okay at 1.8m. Comments appreciated.

I am aware that the automotive lights have a much higher ignition voltage so all care will be taken with that regard.

I'll be doing a long burn test to find out how much heat is generated by the ballast housing and make the necessary arrangements for heat dissipation. Any suggestions regarding this are more than welcome.

Oh BTW, I tried to order some bits from McM Carr but "due to the complexity of United States Export regulations", no luck buying bits from Australia. Go figure...
Oh well...

I'll try to post some pix when I'm a bit more advanced with this project.

Regards

Joe

 

[lucca brassi]

These HID lamps are very problematic for DIY use , there is many reasons for this :

- HIGH VOLTAGE IGNITER
you have integrated ignitier in the ballast , which mean between ballast and bulb high voltage cable . Ignition of such bulb needs arround 21000-24000 V DC , operational voltage it is arround 95 V AC PWM. As I know automotive D1Sor DS1R (35-50W) have separated igniter from ballast , and you Can take out bulb which it is basicaly D2S /D2R . This cable it is special with tefon insulation . Base of bulb it is normal molded arround cable to prevent sparking. You can not simple cut it or join together two parts , because it can cause serious problems with voltage leaking. Normally , lamps for automotive under 35W are DC and 35W or more are AC mode which made
circuit more complex ( H bridge (push-pull), ignitier )

I have adress of one producer called ROTEC from Germany that made very small 50W ballast - similar like W-A 10W/14W ballast diameter 50mm ROTEC


BTW:
Before some years I try to made digital ballast in dimensions I want it by myself based on Unitrode /TI chip :UCC3305, UCC2305 , I have IC , HV chooking transformer made coil on PCB , and Ignition coil and H bridge practically indeed all important parts !....
but , there were problems with bases , high costs of HID bulbs , later with suppliers of bulbs and LED became more and more atractive . So I leave HID lamps.
In these days it is most atractive WA 14W NGX series with low price and much power -1000lm!


- BIG PARABOL AND BIG TEST TUBE
to take advantage of 50W HID you need BIG parabol and because of bulb base BIG test tube , lamp head become (
special on Goodman handle too clumsy - it is suitable only for scooters , bathyscaphe or similar DPV. Hartenberger made a lamp with D2S bat it is real big!
HARTENBERGER
Actually 50W HID lamp if it is rihgt focused and the parabol it is too narrow it is too bright :cool2: because of too hot spot - if taking picture ; it is overexposured

- TEST TUBE
Test tube it is not problem at all. You can simply order dimensions at chemistry glassware shop. Diameter only depends from raw dimensions of glass tubes from where it is blowen. Best test tube it is made from quartz arround 3mm (or 2,54mm (1/10'' ) In Europe cost sample of such test tube arround 15-18 Euro. For sample
Test Tubes

- COAXIAL (ballast , ignitier , bulb)
When you want to put all these things on the hand it must be built in some enclosure.
The easy way it is to build in some cylindrical enclosure which have the same axe.
More expensive way it is to build anclosure like Halcyon 18W HID with plane type
back for ballast. You have also to calculate washers - the simple and the best are O-
ring type. Ballast which fulfil these demands is like Brightstar 24W or for lighter head with separated ignitior like yours Ballast 35W In last case you can put ballast in the canister and place ignitior in the head and in that way reduce hazard on HV cable.

 

[350xfire]

Go LED and save a lot of hassle.

 

[lucca brassi]

Check this magazine test :

DIVEINSIDE

 

[350xfire]

Great article... Too bad I can't read it.

 

[LGH]

Great article... Too bad I can't read it.

You can use translate.google.com for translating PDF files. It might be a bit quirky but you'll get the general idea.

 

[kawaboy]

These HID lamps are very problematic for DIY use , there is many reasons for this :

- HIGH VOLTAGE IGNITER
you have integrated ignitier in the ballast , which mean between ballast and bulb high voltage cable . Ignition of such bulb needs arround 21000-24000 V DC , operational voltage it is arround 95 V AC PWM. As I know automotive D1Sor DS1R (35-50W) have separated igniter from ballast , and you Can take out bulb which it is basicaly D2S /D2R . This cable it is special with tefon insulation . Base of bulb it is normal molded arround cable to prevent sparking. You can not simple cut it or join together two parts , because it can cause serious problems with voltage leaking. Normally , lamps for automotive under 35W are DC and 35W or more are AC mode which made
circuit more complex ( H bridge (push-pull), ignitier )

snip>

In last case you can put ballast in the canister and place ignitior in the head and in that way reduce hazard on HV cable.

Hello all

Up date on this project:

Thanks for your valuable input luca brassi.

I was trying to finish off the slug with the HID bulb and discovered to my dismay that the bulb was too long such that I did not have any meat left after cutting the grooves for the two o-rings. It just became a candidate for the engineering "too hard" basket.

I also take the point that the voltages are high and can cause insulation breakdown in the cable.

Result: The canister will stay as it is minus the ballast, and I will recut a new slug to suit a halogen bulb. I already have the reflector housing built and two test tubes so I want to use the test tube system.

Questions:

What do you think is the ideal halogen bulb to use that will take advantage of 11AH battery pack?

I'm thinking an H1 globe/socket. Thoughts?

What is the ideal glue to use between PVC (casing) and acrylic (bottom cap)? Weld-on #1802 apparently is the duck's nertz.

Re going to LED: I am looking at making a LED hand piece later on. I'm still not sure about what LED to use but I was thinking about a 3-emitter set up.

Cheers

Joe

 

[lucca brassi]

Leave halogen away , instead of that try to do HID 10W head with link W-A above -it is adjustable

 

[Atomic_Diver]

how much does it cost to make a 10w, 21w HID from scratch as supposed to buying one???

 

[adm3745]

I could make a 21w HID for around $250. You definately need a full machine shop.

Brightstar 21w bulb: 50
Ballast: 50
Delrin for Cannister: 25
Orings: 10
Cable Glands: 16
Latches: 20
Cable: 5
Lens and Reflector: 20
Delrin/AL for Head: 10
Switch + Boot: 10
Li-Ion 18650 batteries: 4$ each (9 watts each)
banana plugs: 10

total: around 250


I made my 700 Lumen LED for around $150.