Finally think i've decided on steel.....

[teknitroxdiver]

Another good reason to carry more gas is you can dive longer. If you're deco trained, you can do it deep (with a redundant air source), or make 4 hour lobster dives at 40 feet! One of the beauties of a drysuit....all day in your shorts and you're toasty warm at the end.

 

[Mo2vation]

...or make 4 hour lobster dives at 40 feet! One of the beauties of a drysuit....all day in your shorts and you're toasty warm at the end.

Preach it!!!

K

 

[T-Dog]

I stumbled on this thread, and thought I might contibute. I routinely dive PST 120's & 100s, as well as OMS (faber) 112's, 85's, and 66's, and Al 80's. I dive singles & doubles for reefs, rivers, lakes, wrecks, caves, and trimix. If you're serious enough to buy tanks, then don't waste money on Al 80s, you can rent them anywhere reasonable cheap. Go Big, make sure they're cleaned for nitrox. If you're not already nitrox certified then spend the money on that first, then a nitrox computer, and then go for the tanks. If your debate is between HP PST and LP Faber I would lean toward the Faber LP, because it is easier to get them filled correctly especially for nitrox. I've never finished a dive thinking "Man I wished I had carried less air", but on more than one ocassion when it was time to turn a dive I thought "Man I wished I had carried more air".

Safe diving!

 

[jhelmuth]

The tank is weightless underwater (essentially) so what is the burdon? It dives as effortlessly as a tiny HP80. My SAC when carrying my 130 is no different than when I dive my HP100.

I have excellent trim, buoyancy and control with my waterheater. Its no different than my HP100. As is evidenced by my SAC, my watermanship and my in-water performance.

I have peace of mind of knowing I got lots of gas. I never plan to back into the whole can.

PLUS, by primary buddy dives a 130, as well. So we go in, and come out about the same. He hoovers about 500 - 700 more than I do. Makes sense, he's bigger than I am. My wife dives the HP100 - so I come up with about 900 - 1000 extra. Sometimes less... what's the big deal?

Your arguement doesn't make any sense to me. For what ever reason would a person choose to carry less gas than they comfortably can carry? Heck, I even shore dive with this thing, schlepping it across the sand in the So Cal heat in a drysuit. Its no biggie. Of course, I prefer to boat dive wif it (flop in, climb out) but I can carry it, so I do.

The 130 is simply the best choice for the cold water diving I do. Period.

K

Well - it's not a big deal. It's a matter of perspective. I tend to think in terms of not buying things that create problems. For me, additional weight burns more of my gas (which I guess is OK in this case since you have so much more of it - but then whats the point in that?). Additionally, I'd have to work harder and I have to deal with a larger surface area in the water (more drag) with the larger tank. None of these are a deal breaker, but - given a choice - I choose to not make the dive with more than is needed.
Then again - I dive warm water (dry suit not needed). So if I did dive cold, I may have a different perspective. I'm not advocating that anyone buying something other than AL80's is wrong/dumb/stupid/etc. I just think that it is logical to consider what you are buying to meet the conditions you are diving (IE - use the right stuff for the job).

If I understand you correctly, carrying and extra 8-18+ lbs of weight is fine with you.
OK - that your choice. You may need alot of extra weight or your gas requirements may be higher due to the colder water and type of diving you do. Buy what's appropriate. No biggie.

PS - and don't get me wrong. One reason I think the steel tanks are better are because they have less surface area than the same size AL bottle.

 

[kawboy579]

What kind of SAC rates does everyone average on a normal (non strenuous) dive?

 

[yknot]

Yeah, i dont plan on using it in salt water. If i go to the ocean, it will be for some sort of trip, and ill just rent tanks there. As far as size goes, would you buy the 98CF and run it at higher pressure (say 3000 psi instad of 2500), or buy like a 118CF or something of the sort?

Everything I can tell you is an opinion but I will give you mine anyway, with an attempt at my reasons.

First, in spite of what the warm tropical divers tell you, consider our enviroment. Michigan diving will either be a cold, dark quarry/small inland lake with less than pristine vis or a cold dark and deep large (Great) lake with low vis also. You will be wearing more thermal protection, possibly a dry suit and in these conditions your air consumption will be greater than in the Florida Keys. Don't beat yourself up about your air usage. Even if all you are doing is looking at your dock pilings, is there a reason to NOT have an excess supply of air, if possible? They use alum. 80's on dive charters in the tropics mostly as a way to shorten your dives so as to do two trips a day and to take up less space, not because their's no need for larger tanks.

In Michigan you are more likely to get a good fill with a LP tank than HP. Also, you are more likely to find a shop that will give you somewhat of an overfill with a LP tank than HP. I don't want to start a scuba police rant about the DOT and overfills but I will take an overfill anyday vs an underfill. All of my equipment can handle a 3400 PSI fill. That's well under the design safety margins of OMS tanks and my reg yoke is rated at 3500 anyway. The OMS tanks are filled to rated capacity at 10% over 2400 PSI, or 2640 PSI. You could push a 100 CF tank to 128 CF with a 3400 PSI fill.

As far as the tank size, you need to assess your goals and current use as well as your physical ability. If you are capable of handling the size and weight of a 120, go for it. If you want something to double up in the future, maybe a 120 is too much weight, so start at about 100 CF. The OMS 112's are also a nice compromise.

 

[kawboy579]

Everything I can tell you is an opinion but I will give you mine anyway, with an attempt at my reasons.

First, in spite of what the warm tropical divers tell you, consider our enviroment. Michigan diving will either be a cold, dark quarry/small inland lake with less than pristine vis or a cold dark and deep large (Great) lake with low vis also. You will be wearing more thermal protection, possibly a dry suit and in these conditions your air consumption will be greater than in the Florida Keys. Don't beat yourself up about your air usage. Even if all you are doing is looking at your dock pilings, is there a reason to NOT have an excess supply of air, if possible? They use alum. 80's on dive charters in the tropics mostly as a way to shorten your dives so as to do two trips a day and to take up less space, not because their's no need for larger tanks.

In Michigan you are more likely to get a good fill with a LP tank than HP. Also, you are more likely to find a shop that will give you somewhat of an overfill with a LP tank than HP. I don't want to start a scuba police rant about the DOT and overfills but I will take an overfill anyday vs an underfill. All of my equipment can handle a 3400 PSI fill. That's well under the design safety margins of OMS tanks and my reg yoke is rated at 3500 anyway. The OMS tanks are filled to rated capacity at 10% over 2400 PSI, or 2640 PSI. You could push a 100 CF tank to 128 CF with a 3400 PSI fill.

As far as the tank size, you need to assess your goals and current use as well as your physical ability. If you are capable of handling the size and weight of a 120, go for it. If you want something to double up in the future, maybe a 120 is too much weight, so start at about 100 CF. The OMS 112's are also a nice compromise.

Yknot,
That reply was very helpful to me. I appreciate everyone's input on this matter, it has helped clarify some of the decisions. I think about a 112 is going to be perfect for me, as i have a fairly low consumption rate.

 

[jhelmuth]

Everything I can tell you is an opinion but I will give you mine anyway, with an attempt at my reasons.

First, in spite of what the warm tropical divers tell you, consider our enviroment. Michigan diving will either be a cold, dark quarry/small inland lake with less than pristine vis or a cold dark and deep large (Great) lake with low vis also. You will be wearing more thermal protection, possibly a dry suit and in these conditions your air consumption will be greater than in the Florida Keys. Don't beat yourself up about your air usage. Even if all you are doing is looking at your dock pilings, is there a reason to NOT have an excess supply of air, if possible? They use alum. 80's on dive charters in the tropics mostly as a way to shorten your dives so as to do two trips a day and to take up less space, not because their's no need for larger tanks.

In Michigan you are more likely to get a good fill with a LP tank than HP. Also, you are more likely to find a shop that will give you somewhat of an overfill with a LP tank than HP. I don't want to start a scuba police rant about the DOT and overfills but I will take an overfill anyday vs an underfill. All of my equipment can handle a 3400 PSI fill. That's well under the design safety margins of OMS tanks and my reg yoke is rated at 3500 anyway. The OMS tanks are filled to rated capacity at 10% over 2400 PSI, or 2640 PSI. You could push a 100 CF tank to 128 CF with a 3400 PSI fill.

As far as the tank size, you need to assess your goals and current use as well as your physical ability. If you are capable of handling the size and weight of a 120, go for it. If you want something to double up in the future, maybe a 120 is too much weight, so start at about 100 CF. The OMS 112's are also a nice compromise.

Excellent reply YKnot!
The only things I'd disagree with you about are that we warm water divers (at least myself) are saying that you should consider your dives (I assume you'll agree that that is where the environment is), and that the reason for AL 80s in the warmer tropical diving charters is not as a way to shorten up dives. MOst expierenced divers come back to the charter boat with more than the required 500 psi reserve, so shortening the supply is not a factor. There are less expierenced divers who may come back a few mins early due to "hoovering" their tanks, but that is due to their lack of expierence (and they'll get there too someday with practice). Of all the dive ops I've used, they all limit dives to 60 min bottom time (in shallow depths) or the PADI NDL whichever is less. And in every instance, I come back with at least 1000 psi. So I don't think that the main reason for their using AL 80s is as you say. If I were doing a charter, I'd choose the same thing because [1] It should be plenty of gas for all but the newbies given the PADI (or NAUI, etc.) NDL, and [2] they are easier to take care of than the steel, and [3] the initial start up cost is less than steel.
For myself, I think the best tanks to dive in the local warm waters (other than for spearfishing) are either the HP PST-80s (at a lower 3000 psi fill if you don'r need the extra gas) or LP 95 Fabers or PST. For spearfishing, I like the 100-120s as an extra margin of safety in case you take a big fish with a bad shot and he wears you out.
Up in Michigan, I don't know whats best - but it sounds like you do and I'd go along with that. I just wanted to point out that there is no "one best" cylinder for all dives. Yes, you can get by on other choices, but if you are going to buy a cylinder, why not get the most appropriate one for your intended diving.

 

[trieste]

Do you dive wet or dry?

Are you a small person, will you be diving shallow dives? Just wondering why an 80 for cold water deeper diving. Unless you're pretty small, why wouldn't you want all the BT you can get? Does your dive buddy also have a tiny tank?

Just wondering. Not trying to open a big ol' can o' worms here. Just wondering what drove the decision.

You'll never go wrong with a PST tank, my friend. I'm not big (5-7, 168) and I dive the PST e8-130 waterheater. I wanted mad BT, a tank that will last forever, and one with favorable weighting. For me, it was a no brainer - and I have no regrets. I love this thing.

K

I'm almost exactly your size, and own 2 E8-130's (I'm diving 'em as singles) Have you thought about doubling them? I ordered 119's from my LDS and they gave me 130's for the same price. I thought it was a good idea at the time, but now that I want to double them.....!!!