Suggestion Finalized Banning Procedure

[The Chairman]

On January 15, 2003, 7 users were banned from Scubaboard. Most of the moderators and a few of our users were not satisfied with the process, and so we began discussing the hows and whys in the moderator’s forum. Subsequently we even opened up a new forum for our users to be able to express their thoughts and ideas.

In formulating the new process, we wanted to ensure to resolve a few issues germane to the larger issue. These would be communication, fairness, consistency and moderator responsibility. To this end we have come up with the following process:

Temp bans (5 days) can be called for by any moderator and are automatic. This can be in response to any violation of the TOS (moderator’s discretion), harassment of others, flaming others, or trolling. The moderator must send a notice (even though an administrator has to flip the switch) to the affected user’s e-mail and detail why the suspension was initiated. These should be rare and can be conditional.

Perm Bans are considered when the user exceeds 2 suspensions in less than 6 months, openly challenges authority (not just asking a question), threatens anyone in any way, or has blatantly violated the TOS. A perm ban requires 8 moderator’s approvals or a 2/3s majority of the mods voting, which ever is more. A temp ban should be called for first and then perm banning should be discussed for at least 5 days. The mod who initiated the temp ban is in charge of the process. They will also set the time for a vote (at least 5 days) and send the appropriate message if so needed. These should be very rare and can be conditional.

Under no circumstances will Scubaboard moderators or administrators disclose reasons or rationale for any disciplinary action to a third party. We view this as a privacy issue and are committed to protect the privacy of the board's users at all times. While we do respect a user's desire to request a review of the status of their account, we specifically forbid the use of sock puppets (multiple user accounts) or another user's account to make your case. All such requests must be sent to scubaboard@moderninsider.com for consideration. At this point of the process, we will not feel obliged to correspond any further unless we change your status. All moderators and administrators will forward any and all such requests sent to them personally as well.

Perm bans can be re-visited by any mod at any time and only need a simple majority of the mods voting to be rescinded.

As with any “invention” you are never sure how it works until tested. So it was suggested and then decided by the mods to subject the January 15 bans to the new process. 4 of the original 7 had perm bannings initiated and those are being discussed. While we hoped to have 3 of those 4 finalized today, server issues have made that impossible. However, we can report that Cobaltbabe, Raven C and 00Scuba have been subsequently restored to full user status. We welcome them back into the Scubaboard fold, and extend our sincerest thanks to those users who gave us input into this issue.

 

[detroit diver]

Yep. That's a valid observation IMHO. Frankly, if the powers to be decide to place a given Forum with lot's of abuse into "Post Moderation" mode you and I will see an immediate reduction in this kind of stuff. The goal is "reduced to an acceptable level" The Forum is still live with posts but each post is reviewed by a Moderator before it's either published/posted or deleated along with perhaps the offending member

Given the fact that this Forum and every post in it vanishes forever this Friday as per: http://www.scubaboard.com/announcement.php?f=194 Perhaps...

A modification of the above is to run the Post Moderation for a few months untill the "hull is clean" and then open it back up again so posts no longer require review.

Thoughts?

With all due respect, I think going into moderation mode is absurd for a few different reasons.

1. The workload on the mod's will be horrendous
2. A conversation today will be meaningless if pulled and then posted 3 days later.
3. No one will use that forum. Part of the appeal to a "live" forum is it's timeliness. Going to delay mode will remove participation completely, except for those hard core that have a fight to pick or nothing else to do. For example, rec.scuba has a 3-9 hours posting time, and it's not even moderated. It completely loses spontenaity.

Running it for a few months will just permanently eliminate your user base for that area, because they won't be back 3 months later. Your hull will be clean, but nothing will grow there.

Of course, as Dennis Millers says, I could be wrong.

 

[diverbrian]

Better yet. Bring your suit, some shades and your dress sandels. We'll splurge for a stretch & a penguin clad driver.

We'll have to change the order, hit the pool hall first, then finish up a Bogie's. I'm a pretty good shot at a moving dart board, but I can never remember to aim at the middle ball when shooting pool. We'll do max's, then head up and close down Bogie's, and hit the Circle K on the way home for some hangover helper.

Do this AFTER you show us your shipwrecks. I'll gladly bring my drysuit and gear along. Then, hit the bars! There has to be diving included after all.

 

[Steve_S]

With all due respect, I think going into moderation mode is absurd for a few different reasons.

1. The workload on the mod's will be horrendous
2. A conversation today will be meaningless if pulled and then posted 3 days later.
3. No one will use that forum. Part of the appeal to a "live" forum is it's timeliness. Going to delay mode will remove participation completely, except for those hard core that have a fight to pick or nothing else to do. For example, rec.scuba has a 3-9 hours posting time, and it's not even moderated. It completely loses spontenaity.

Running it for a few months will just permanently eliminate your user base for that area, because they won't be back 3 months later. Your hull will be clean, but nothing will grow there.

Of course, as Dennis Millers says, I could be wrong.

You raise some valid points. I should have been more specific.

Your numbered points:

1. If we are only talking about the DIR forum then it's a trival task given the small number of posts.. This Forum opened a few months ago, already has a well deserved no troll or you hit the slab warning and in the big picture is a very minor consideration to the continued success to SB. Of course if "you" want it you can always start your own Forum

2. Not much in the way of time critical stuff going on the the DIR forum. Compare it to the Underwater Photog forum which is time driven. So a delay has little if any impact.

3. You could certainly be correct. So what! Is that the end of the world. Does all of SB revolve around a single Forum with 1200+ posts compared to others with 25K and more? I don't think so.

Communities continue to flourish for many reasons. One of the major ones is that they are NOT all things to all people. This often produces other great Communities with an even narrower focus. Witness TDS. A quality operation with a clearly defined narrower focus which is great!

And your rebutal?

 

[detroit diver]

If the issue is only in 1 forum, I would agree with you. The workload would be minimal. But you would certainly lose the spontenaity-and I'm not talking about "time critical" as in a deadline.

If you started a conversaton with your friend, and each could answer the last comment only after someone had a chance to peruse and okay it, you would get frustrated and never speak to them.

And when you lose the participants in that, or any, forum, you have handed victory to the trolls. Too much good information is lost forever because some folks just want to stir up garbage-maybe on purpose.

You don't think that this would be the "end of the world", but I think it would put a huge damper on the type of information that people look for from SB. SB doesn't revolve around one forum, but lots of people have been exposed to many new ideas because of those forums.

Last point. The issue here seems to be the DIR forum. I didn't think it was a good idea to have that forum anyway, because it doesn't really do what I think you intended it to. It encompasses too wide a range of information that is applicable to many of the other forums on the board. By creating it's own forum, you have given those that wish to stir up trouble a direct target. Get rid of the forum and let the specific conversations take place in the areas that make the most sense. It's happening now anyway.

By the way, if I might ask- what is your affiliation with this board? You seem to be quite knowledgable about it's inner workings, but I've never seen a post that states who you are. If I missed it, my apologies.

You raise some valid points. I should have been more specific.

Your numbered points:

1. If we are only talking about the DIR forum then it's a trival task given the small number of posts.. This Forum opened a few months ago, already has a well deserved no troll or you hit the slab warning and in the big picture is a very minor consideration to the continued success to SB. Of course if "you" want it you can always start your own Forum

2. Not much in the way of time critical stuff going on the the DIR forum. Compare it to the Underwater Photog forum which is time driven. So a delay has little if any impact.

3. You could certainly be correct. So what! Is that the end of the world. Does all of SB revolve around a single Forum with 1200+ posts compared to others with 25K and more? I don't think so.

Communities continue to flourish for many reasons. One of the major ones is that they are NOT all things to all people. This often produces other great Communities with an even narrower focus. Witness TDS. A quality operation with a clearly defined narrower focus which is great!

And your rebutal?

 

[Scubamedicjoe]

What happened to SeaJay? I must have missed that one.

The Mod gods canned him dont think they letting him back most of the rest are back !!!!!!!!

 

[cornfed]

2. Not much in the way of time critical stuff going on the the DIR forum. Compare it to the Underwater Photog forum which is time driven. So a delay has little if any impact.

I'm sorry, but don't see why the exchange of photographic information is so time critical...

 

[The Chairman]

Steve_S is a "friend of a friend" and a mentor to at least one of us in this cyber media (not me). His knowledge of what we do here is pretty amazing and I appreciate his input. He would be a mod if he only had the time. The offer remains open to him to this day.

 

[Steve_S]

....

Last point. The issue here seems to be the DIR forum. I didn't think it was a good idea to have that forum anyway, because it doesn't really do what I think you intended it to. It encompasses too wide a range of information that is applicable to many of the other forums on the board. By creating it's own forum, you have given those that wish to stir up trouble a direct target. Get rid of the forum and let the specific conversations take place in the areas that make the most sense. It's happening now anyway.

By the way, if I might ask- what is your affiliation with this board? You seem to be quite knowledgable about it's inner workings, but I've never seen a post that states who you are. If I missed it, my apologies.

HA! I like your last point and solution even better than my own. Your analysis is spot on. Very insitefull. Congrats.

No arguments from me on the value of spontenaity. Natch, this is one of the primary goals with respect to the DIR forum: you stunt it and force folks to think before they post, eliminate the 15 minutes of fame, and "clean the hull" of the undesirable marine growth If we were discussing a busy forum then a different solution would be required and as you point out and or infer, the incidence of abuse post compared to compliant posts would be significantly lower.

I'm a member and diver just like you. No special access for me or hidden privileges. However, I was around before their was SB with KN, LD, and TA, my advice was and is always available and to a certain exstent I helped raise and nurture the little kid that grew up to be SB. I do run my own Communities and help others run theirs along with an intimate knowledge of vBulletin (the script which runs SB) and other geeky issues germain to the WWW. I'm just a fresh set of eyes who returns from time to time when I think my advice might be of value.

I returned recently because I saw EXPLOSIVE growth and that always produces new challenges which I have dealt with in the past.

Consider SB which has growen from 8K members to 20K members and 219K posts to 484K posts in a single year.

Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20030124002924/http://scubaboard.com/

I'm currently very optamistic about the future of SB and the changes I see. All mature Communities incounter what I like to call a "defining moment" where changes are made, often painfull, but usually produce a better Community long term. Your patience, civility, insightfull thoughts, passion, and support speak volumes about you and SB.

Edit: (blush) ND

Dive safe

 

[-hh]

The thing about SB that brings out the worst in people is that its users see bad things happen to people for no apparent reason.

A good point.

Having read through this thread, I'm glad to see that SB has recognized that there are always opportunities for improvement, much like how we also strive to never stop learning ways for us to be better divers.

I know Moderation is a tough thing, and there can be very strong wills involved when we discuss things that can relate to the safety of our sport; I've been there myself in my own dialog exchanges. I also know that its hard to gage the sincerity of a poster, particularly when the past history of dialog exchange gets extensive...as with all things human and thus fallable, these things are pragmatially unavoidable: there will always be perceptions of favoritism, blow-ups and even though emotionally we might not think so at the moment, its not the end of the world.


My comments? Well, regardless of what the Lawyers may advise, you'll never build trust without communication and transparency in policy and process.

As such, you need to decide what you really want: to be shielded as much as possible from any possible liability, or to be respected and trusted. History rarely remembers those who play it safe and never stick their necks out.


-hh

 

[jonnythan]

My comments? Well, regardless of what the Lawyers may advise, you'll never build trust without communication and transparency in policy and process.

That's a good point and, really, the bottom line. All of the other stuff in this thread is just fluff compared to that.