Filling Air into a "Nitrox" Tank ILLEGAL?

[Scared Silly]

Remove all the labels from your tanks... problem solved.

Actually not ... read this thread for the opposite problem:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=187503


Quite honestly, after reading both threads I have to say that folks on all sides could use some further education. And even though I have taken (and passed) the PSI Inspector course I am still learning.

 

[ekewaka]

Buy a compressor, and fill your own tanks... problem solved.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

"NOAA is the agency that started the NITROX labeling requirements that are followed by practice in the dive industry. Nitrox and Air are two different categories of gas per the CGA, so a visual inspection to CGA standards must be performed when changing the gas in the cylinder, example: Nitrox to air or Air to Nitrox. The reason for this is to prevent Oxygen cleaned cylinders from being contaminated by filling with air."

This is largely and issue of semantics. If the "air" being introduced into the tank meets the lower hydro carbon standards required for the O2 compatible air used to mix nitrox, contamination is not going to occur.

Or from another perspective, "air" that meets O2 compatibility standards is for all practical purposes "Nitrox 21" and would by definition not contaminate a nitrox tank. The only possible objection here is that it would not meet the NOAA definition of Nitrox as it does not contain at least 23.5% O2 and to use that argument would be pretty stupid as a lower O2 concentration of 21% will also not contaminate the tank.

Also I suspect that;

"visual inspection to CGA standards must be performed when changing the gas in the cylinder, example: Nitrox to air"

is a mistatement or overstatement as I would be very surprised if the CGA would actually mandate cleaning and re-inspection if you put air into a tank fomerly used for nitrox service, as long as it is no longer labeled for Nitrox service, as the already completed cleaning and Nitrox inspection were done to much more rigorous standards.

 

[pakman]

you think he would have caught on if you walked out of the store, opened the manifold, let the two tanks equalize, close the manifold, and went back in the shop and complained you didn't get a full fill?


repeat as necessary...

 

[eponym]

Rest assured though, it is not illegal to fill a nitrox tank with air unless it is permanently marked as a nitrox tank in some way.

The phrase "permanently marked" has come up in this thread and its links more than once. Does an adhesive label constitute a "permanent" mark?

Just wondering,
Bryan

 

[SparticleBrane]

I find it interesting that the person who runs an organization that trains people to do tank inspections...is recommending tank inspections every time you switch from nitrox to air or vice versa.

While it sounds like they want to just be extra extra safe (never a problem with that), it also makes me sad that common sense is lacking. If the air I'm putting in my tanks is so "dirty" that it will "contaminate" my tanks, do I even want to dive that stuff to begin with? Doesn't matter to me--most places around here pump O2 clean air.

 

[Randy43068]

I went to Sport Chalet today to get my doubles filled. One of the two tanks had a NITROX sticker on it, which hasn't been a problem in the past. The genius that filled my tanks only filled one side (he shut off the isolation valve) stating that it was illegal to fill the tank labeled NITROX with air. He showed me a copy of an article that appeared in March, 2007 Northwest Diving News that stated on page 33 "It is illegal to thereafter fill that cylinder with air until the dedicated markings are removed."

I offered to remove the NITROX label, but was told that I would have to take it home, remove the label, then bring them in the next day. I thought it was silly to only fill one tank in a set of doubles.

I'm going to follow up to see what statute specifically states that bottles can only be filled with the media as labeled. Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

Steve

Nut cases and nonsense. If that's how stupid they are, find a new shop.
However, you don't want to do PP fills if you don't know the "quality" of the can.

A visual will not necessarily tell you if you have a "dirty" can, but "black lighting" the inside can give you a clue if there are hydrocarbons in your cylinder.

 

[in_cavediver]

I find it interesting that the person who runs an organization that trains people to do tank inspections...is recommending tank inspections every time you switch from nitrox to air or vice versa.

While it sounds like they want to just be extra extra safe (never a problem with that), it also makes me sad that common sense is lacking. If the air I'm putting in my tanks is so "dirty" that it will "contaminate" my tanks, do I even want to dive that stuff to begin with? Doesn't matter to me--most places around here pump O2 clean air.

I agree. That said, I vow to never dive anything but NOAA type nitrox (o2 > 23.5%), Hypoxic NOAA nitrox and Helium enriched hypoxic NOAA type nitrox. Therefore, my tanks will always be NITROX tanks....(without the bumper stickers)

 

[SparticleBrane]

I usually dive air (seriously I don't need nitrox for 30ft dives) but it's always O2 clean. I don't have bumper stickers either...they're too ugly. :11:
If I need nitrox I'll just label the tanks with the %.

 

[CompuDude]

This is absurd.

Sport Chalet is a big chain, and NONE of their shops pump Nitrox. All of their setups are air-only. Regular Grade E, not the Mod-E hyper filtered o2-clean compatible air.

The OP's tanks were labelled "Nitrox" not a specific o2 percentage nitrox. He also didn't state that the tanks were o2 clean... if they were, it would have been foolish of him to get a fill at Sport Chalet, unless he no longer cared about maintaining their o2 clean state. But even if they were, and if he no longer cared about keeping them o2 clean, that should be his choice, not the shops. Sport Chalet should have absolutely no say whatsoever in such things since they have decided, as a chain, not to offer Nitrox fills at any location.

Air *IS* Nitrox, as has been pointed out a few times: 21% Nitrox, to be precise. There is nothing remotely "illegal" about filling a Nitrox tank with 21% Nitrox. And no matter where you get your air fill, you're still getting 21% Nitrox.

The only conceivable concern I can give any credence to is if there was remaining gas of unknown percentage in the tanks, upon getting the fill, the owner may have walked out of the shop with, say 28% or so rather than plain air. Easily solved by dumping the gas in the tank before filling.

Which Sport Chalet store did you go to? I want to know so I can (a) avoid that location, and (b) possibly report the idiot behind the counter. I get my tanks filled at the West Hills Sport Chalet store on a regular basis, and don't have any of these issues, no matter what my tanks say on the outside. (My old tanks had Trimix stickers all over, and nary an eyebrow was raised.)