Feb 19 2017 Cozumel diving fatality

[redacted]

When a diver in the group needs to surface " thumbs the dive " then all divers surface, once on the surface sort out the problem , get it handled , make sure diver is safe and back onboard. Controlled descents are part of diving this should be discussed in the dive plan and briefing by the DM who is guiding the group.

Might work if you are the only dive op in town. Or maybe it will just send customers to other towns.

 

[RayfromTX]

We have a busy section called accidents and incidents where we discuss scuba deaths. Find that on the bowling website. People may die at the bowling alley but not from the bowling.

It is silly and dangerous to think that scuba isn't dangerous. With a death rate of around 1 per 200,000 dives and a loss of 16 divers per 100,000 per year it is far more dangerous than driving and is around half as dangerous as skydiving. In all of those activities it is generally the judgement and decisions made by the participant that create the problems.

The environments where these activities take place is hostile to humans which makes bad judgement or bad luck or suddenly compromised health harder to get away with. I was careful in my wording in my previous statement to specify that scuba could be made relatively safe OR deadly depending on the seriousness with which it is approached.

Pretending that scuba is not dangerous can lead to poor safety protocols. Oopsies at depth are not the same as on land. Ignoring health issues or gear issues or proper protocols can skew your risk factors and chance of survival more than most activities that you might take part in on vacation.

The difference as I see it between the risk of scuba and say rock climbing is that it is easier to imagine that scuba isn't dangerous. How many people die scuba diving each year? 500? 90 in the US and Canada? I know for skydiving it is 30 and half of those have a perfectly good open parachute that they crash on landing by hotdogging a swoop landing for show. It is almost always about judgement.

 

[KDAD]

When a diver in the group needs to surface " thumbs the dive " then all divers surface, once on the surface sort out the problem , get it handled , make sure diver is safe and back onboard. Controlled descents are part of diving this should be discussed in the dive plan and briefing by the DM who is guiding the group.

Why would the whole group need to end the dive because one diver decides to thumb? What happens in a dive where there is no DM? What about when a diver runs low on air - the whole group has to surface?

Many, many ops run where everyone drops together, with or without a guide, and then when you need to come up, you come up. If you have a buddy he can go to. The rest can continue their dive until it's time for them to come up.

This isn't GUE team diving. It's rec.

 

[Ron Lee]

There really wasn't any indication of distress from what people who were there have said.

My recollection from one post is that she was not feeling well. That may not be factual. She ended the dive early (how much/at what point I do not recall) so that in itself is a potential anomaly.

A few years ago on a Cozumel dive we were on the later stages of the dive in relatively shallow water (50 feet?). One woman needed to surface, possibly because she was cold but that is just a guess. It was not an emergency.

I advised the divemaster that I would accompany her to the surface, did a safety stop, verified that there were no approaching boats before she surfaced, then assisted her getting on the boat. It was not a big deal but better that I cut my dive short a little to ensure her safety. I do believe that the divemaster has visibility of our progress.

As someone noted today, there have been a few other "He/She was just there and when I looked again they were gone" fatalities in Cozumel in recent years.

Best recollection follows:

1) Man was seen surfacing (maybe with his buddy). Never seen again

2) Woman from Utah diving with two brothers never seen after they were in a swim through.

3) Woman from cruise ship on Santa Rosa was there one moment, then gone the next.

In general I look for all other divers in my group multiple times during a dive. It won't necessarily prevent a disappearance but might help. It just takes a few seconds to find and count five or six people.

 

[halocline]

When a diver in the group needs to surface " thumbs the dive " then all divers surface, once on the surface sort out the problem , get it handled , make sure diver is safe and back onboard.

I wouldn't dive with a Cozumel dive op that made me surface when the first diver in the group wanted to surface. I'm perfectly comfortable surfacing with a buddy or on my own.

 

[halocline]

It is silly and dangerous to think that scuba isn't dangerous. With a death rate of around 1 per 200,000 dives....

Those are pretty good odds. I wouldn't call an activity with a 199,999 in 200,000 chance of survival "dangerous."

Specific to Cozumel, I wonder how many dives there are annually on the island? I would guess at least 200,000 but I really don't know. If anyone else does, I'd like to find out. How many fatalities annually? Maybe on average one or two? And many of the divers in Cozumel are older and not fit.

If those numbers are anywhere close to accurate, I don't think it points to any problem with safety procedures in Cozumel.

 

[DandyDon]

establish A VERY POSITIVE BUYANCY, once you reach the surface.

Yep, including practicing weight ditching. Have you lately? Most fatalities who are found still have weights on. Also good to practice ditching your buddy's weights. Systems vary as the first folks to find this poor lady posted that they did not know how to ditch hers. Weights should only be ditched at the surface if possible, but a fast ascent is better than no ascent.

being the "buddy" of a DM responsible for a gaggle of other random divers is basically solo diving.

Yep, but we see that suggested so often in these forums. We need to challenge such suggestions here.

you should remain together from the time you enter the water until you leave the water. There are too many horror stories of people ascending a few minutes before their teammates and one of them is never again seen alive.

Yep. My home buddy & I enter together, descend together, stop until he clears his ears at 20 feet together - however long that takes, stay together, ascend together, and exit together.

One trip to New Mexico with him, we dived with a third in Santa Rosa's Blue Hole. We all surfaced together but got separated in crowded conditions and I did not see the third leave the hole. I ended up searching the 82 foot deep hole on my pony bottle to make sure I didn't have to talk to his widow. He was so embarrassed, he left town before I got to my car.

Another trip with the same home bud to the same hole, I got to talking with other divers on the surface and did not see my home bud leave. This time I climbed the stairs to see if I could see him before starting an emergency search, and saw him at the car. We had another discussion.
​

When a diver in the group needs to surface " thumbs the dive " then all divers surface, once on the surface sort out the problem , get it handled , make sure diver is safe and back onboard.

How can you and I arrange to never be on the same boat?

Statistically scuba is as dangerous as bowling.

Are you certified?

 

[BertStevens]

Are you certified?

Yes I am. I recall back when I was first considering diving that the risk of injury was .04 percent, which is equal to bowling. That number stuck with me since I found it so funny.

Here is something more recent from How Safe is Scuba Diving and What Are the Risks?

1 out of every 211,864 dives ending in a fatality does not seem so great a number when compared with the fatality rates of other activities. For example:

• 1 out of every 5,555 of registered drivers in the US died in car accidents in 2008 (www.cenus.gov).
• 1 out of every 7692 pregnant women died from pregnancy complications in 2004 (National Center for Health Statistics).
• 1 out of every 116,666 skydives ended in a fatality in 2000 (United States Parachuting Association).
• 1 out of every 126,626 marathon runners died of sudden cardiac arrest while running a marathon between 1975-2003 (National Safety Council)

 

[BRT]

Those are pretty good odds. I wouldn't call an activity with a 199,999 in 200,000 chance of survival "dangerous."

Specific to Cozumel, I wonder how many dives there are annually on the island? I would guess at least 200,000 but I really don't know. If anyone else does, I'd like to find out. How many fatalities annually? Maybe on average one or two? And many of the divers in Cozumel are older and not fit.

If those numbers are anywhere close to accurate, I don't think it points to any problem with safety procedures in Cozumel.

I think you are way low on number of dives annually on Coz. Meridiano told me they fill 2000 tanks a day. Total tanks dived has to be twice that.

 

[DandyDon]

Yes I am. I recall back when I was first considering diving that the risk of injury was .04 percent, which is equal to bowling. That number stuck with me since I found it so funny.

I really don't know the numbers for either one, but I know of no records of any bowlers drowning, hit by props, lost & uncovered, etc. There may be some fatal cardiac events and broken bones in alleys, but bowling didn't likely cause many. No one is getting out of life alive, but all things considered - scuba is a potentially dangerous sport than we try to manage safely.

As to your offered examples...

1 out of every 211,864 dives ending in a fatality: I don't know how true that is even. Maybe?

• 1 out of every 5,555 of registered drivers in the US died in car accidents in 2008 Yeah, but apples & oranges. How many fatalities per car trip?

• 1 out of every 7692 pregnant women died from pregnancy complications in 2004 Ok, yeah, that one is dangerous. I don't ever want to be pregnant.

• 1 out of every 116,666 skydives ended in a fatality in 2000 Yeah, dangerous.

• 1 out of every 126,626 marathon runners died of sudden cardiac arrest while running a marathon between 1975-2003 How many per 100,000 runs?