Fathom vs. KISS Classic?

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davehicks

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Orifices can and eventually will clog. The tiniest drop of water anywhere upstream will lead to corrosion, the brass orifice wants to corrode and turn green pretty badly. It only takes one tiny tiny salt crystal to cause a problem.

The Revo MAV is the worst as you can't get the actual orifice out of the block to clean it. Your smaller orifice is actually more likely to clog than the standard 0.035" one. Just because it hasn't happened to you yet does not mean it doesnt happen. This is one reason why needle valves are increasing popular, they are basically impossible to clog.

I think I've had my KISS orifice clog before, at least partially. I was getting reduced flow after about 5 days of diving on a cold water trip, and had to manually add O2 more than usual. I serviced the MAV and cleaned the orifice in an ultrasonic. It was good as new after that.

That's one time in about 13 years and probably 1,500 dives on our two KISS units.
 

rddvet

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Fathom manufacturer and GUE-F instructor is an odd combo! Good for him but I can see where this is going lol

I cant' speak for Charlie, but the impression I'm getting based on conversations my wife had with him during her fundies class is that he's not happy with how alot of cave instructors are teaching things in N. FL and he'd like to step in and try to change that in whatever small way he can. A separate discussion with the instructor he was running the fundies class with went a little further into some more details including the fact that some of the "good" N. Fl instructors are starting to teach less, leaving more room for some of the less than ideal instructors to get in on the action. So they see a niche where Charlie could benefit people with his real world knowledge. Mind you this is all third hand since my wife and I talked about it a week after her class was over and obviously during a fundies class there's a bit of information overload so her memory of the conversation may not be fully accurate. So take my assessment with a grain of salt. Ken knows Charlie much better so he may know more about Charlie's long term goals. My wife thoroughly enjoyed the class and felt Charlie did an excellent job and was a good instructor since he has some experience most cave divers will never get. She felt as though he could explain why some of the things taught in fundies transfer so well to long range cave diving. At the end of the class both instructors asked for constructive criticism so she gave them her minor little things she felt could be done a little differently as Charlie gained more experience teaching. She said both instructors appreciated it and she felt unlike many instructors we've worked with, Charlie will actually take the suggestions to heart. To me that's a sign of someone I would want to learn from because I've had the instructors that could care less about improving and are stuck in their ways. My wife and I both agree the two best instructors we've worked with are Kelvin Davidson and Ken Sallot. They both take the time to explain the how and why they do things and are open to questions and others' opinions. They also both appreciate student input. Both hold extremely high standards but aren't rigid, drill sergeants. My wife said Charlie fell right in line with them.
My apologies that was so long. Idk why that got so wordy.
 
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Blackfrogfeet

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Thanks for the input everyone. I think after reading the comments, I'm pretty decided going with a Fathom and doing my training in Mexico at 3rd Dimension.
 

rjack321

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I cant' speak for Charlie, but the impression I'm getting based on conversations my wife had with him during her fundies class is that he's not happy with how alot of cave instructors are teaching things in N. FL and he'd like to step in and try to change that in whatever small way he can. A separate discussion with the instructor he was running the fundies class with went a little further into some more details including the fact that some of the "good" N. Fl instructors are starting to teach less, leaving more room for some of the less than ideal instructors to get in on the action. So they see a niche where Charlie could benefit people with his real world knowledge. Mind you this is all third hand since my wife and I talked about it a week after her class was over and obviously during a fundies class there's a bit of information overload so her memory of the conversation may not be fully accurate. So take my assessment with a grain of salt. Ken knows Charlie much better so he may know more about Charlie's long term goals. My wife thoroughly enjoyed the class and felt Charlie did an excellent job and was a good instructor since he has some experience most cave divers will never get. She felt as though he could explain why some of the things taught in fundies transfer so well to long range cave diving. At the end of the class both instructors asked for constructive criticism so she gave them her minor little things she felt could be done a little differently as Charlie gained more experience teaching. She said both instructors appreciated it and she felt unlike many instructors we've worked with, Charlie will actually take the suggestions to heart. To me that's a sign of someone I would want to learn from because I've had the instructors that could care less about improving and are stuck in their ways. My wife and I both agree the two best instructors we've worked with are Kelvin Davidson and Ken Sallot. They both take the time to explain the how and why they do things and are open to questions and others' opinions. They also both appreciate student input. Both hold extremely high standards but aren't rigid, drill sergeants. My wife said Charlie fell right in line with them.
My apologies that was so long. Idk why that got so wordy.
Charlie didnt get a graduate degree by being dumb. So I am sure he has potential as an instructor, and the current choices are sometimes disappointing as well.

I was more laughing because I'm sure there's that much more potential for the fathom to be an mCCR alternative to the JJ in the coming years.
 

rddvet

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Thanks for the input everyone. I think after reading the comments, I'm pretty decided going with a Fathom and doing my training in Mexico at 3rd Dimension.

Very good choice. Have you dove with Kelvin before? He's an exceptional instructor and a great guy. I consider him a good friend. I took my mod1 with him. He's one of the few people in mexico that has tons of tank choices besides al80s for you to try with your unit. He has 50s to sm or run as a "boat rig" onboard, 85s, and obviously al80s to choose from. You'll be very happy. And I believe you won't be disappointed with the fathom. Good news is if you are you can sell it easily and not lose much money.

Charlie didnt get a graduate degree by being dumb. So I am sure he has potential as an instructor, and the current choices are sometimes disappointing as well.

I was more laughing because I'm sure there's that much more potential for the fathom to be an mCCR alternative to the JJ in the coming years.
Gotcha. My wife was at a GUE meetup today and got the skinny. Charlie's next upcoming class is his final instructor checkout by Mark Messersmith. So he's almost official. Not as of yet though.
 
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Blackfrogfeet

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Very good choice. Have you dove with Kelvin before? He's an exceptional instructor and a great guy. I consider him a good friend. I took my mod1 with him. He's one of the few people in mexico that has tons of tank choices besides al80s for you to try with your unit. He has 50s to sm or run as a "boat rig" onboard, 85s, and obviously al80s to choose from. You'll be very happy. And I believe you won't be disappointed with the fathom. Good news is if you are you can sell it easily and not lose much money.


Gotcha. My wife was at a GUE meetup today and got the skinny. Charlie's next upcoming class is his final instructor checkout by Mark Messersmith. So he's almost official. Not as of yet though.

I haven't dove with him before, however a local dive buddy of mine took pretty much all his IANTD cave training from him, and had his T1 co-taught between him and Shockey, so he had lots of good reviews.
 

kensuf

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You'll be in good hands with Kelvin. Enjoy the unit and the journey!
 

rddvet

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I haven't dove with him before, however a local dive buddy of mine took pretty much all his IANTD cave training from him, and had his T1 co-taught between him and Shockey, so he had lots of good reviews.

You will enjoy yourself. He's a nice guy that makes class fun, but goes well beyond what the standards require.
 

lbowles2

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Hey Blackfrogfeet...

Sent you a PM...

Les Bowles
 

rddvet

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For those considering the fathom, it's getting harder and harder to beat it. Charlie's perfected hard mounted 3L suit inflation and oxygen for OW tech diving. Now you can have independent gas sources very easily. No more worrying about sharing suit and wing together. So now you've got 3 options. 1) onboard 50s with a soft mount for the oxygen (upper left unit in the photo) 2) offboard dil with onboard inflation and oxygen for sidemounting the bailout/dil (upper right unit in the photo) or 3) the new tech rig with onboard 50s, offboard suit and oxygen on really really sturdy mounts for OW trimix (unit on the ground)

IMG_6567.JPG
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https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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