Fathom vs. KISS Classic?

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IThe kiss MAV is nice but I do worry about the orifice clogging.

Orifice clogging? I have about 14 years of using my Classic Kiss, about 60 dives per year and neither ever had any problem nor have heard of anyone having that issue. The MAV deals with oxygen, so both the tank and the gas are to be clean.

Three years ago I swapped the standard orifice for the smaller one sold by Tecme, and increased the IP of the DS4 oxygen side to 18-19 bars in order to use my Kiss deeper than 70 meters, and again not any problem whatsoever.
 
Hey scubaboard,

Ive started saving for my first CCR, and have been doing the necessary research to figure out what unit I want. I'm mainly interested in backmount manual CCRs with backmounted counterlungs, that are fairly modular and can accept a wide variety of cylinders in case I want to dive with a backmounted DIL config.

I've started to narrow it down between the Fathom and the KISS, leaning more towards the Fathom as it comes ready to accept off board DIL put of the box, and it seems the KISS does not. Does anyone have experience with both units?

I will be doing primarily deep ocean technical dives in cold water and dabbling in caves a few times a year.


I do not know Fathom, but you will not go wrong with a classic Kiss. It is technically possible to place large tanks backmounted on a Kiss, but it is much easier and practical to have dil/bo sidemounted.

I dive a CK since 14 years ago and very happy about it. In fact I am looking for a second unit for a friend. First, it is so simple and intuitive that it is very safe, and being a mCCR you have be really in top of your ppO2.

it is relatively lightweight (26 kg with ss BP and 2 x 2 L steel tanks),however you do not need a lot of lead to sink it, it breathes very well, its scrubber time is 4+hours, if you know how to maintain a dive reg then you probably would be able to do maintenance in a CK.

That said, I have done the following mods in my unit:

Narked at 90 stand
BOV replaced by Golem Gear
Installed a HUD
Installed a hardwired Petrel
Replaced standard hoses by short ones
Increased IP oxy side/smaller orifice for going deeped than 75 meters

Kiss was bought by an US guy (Mike Young) some years ago. Since then, they have launched several interesting models (i.e sidewinder) and nowadays when you purchase a new unit you can also choose the options for BOV, electronics etc etc.

Kiss is a workhorse and a serious rebreather. Several cave diving records have been done using Kiss rebreathers:
https://metro.co.uk/2010/09/14/briti...system-512397/
https://divingalmanac.com/longest-ca...tion-dive-dpv/
Pozo Azul - Cave Diving Beyond the Limits
 
Since when is Charlie a GUE instructor?

I believe officially as of right now. Or maybe in a couple of weeks. My wife took fundies a couple of months ago and it was one of Charlie’s last courses before his instructor “test” or whatever they call it when you have to impress Kirill

I believe he plans to teach beyond fundies but I’m not 100% sure
 
I actually know of two people taking fundies with him in about a month. So I think he’s fully official
 
To the OP: I may be throwing kensuf under the bus to have to do more work, but if I were you I would talk to him. Of the 4 fathom instructors I'm pretty positive he's the only one with lots of time on a Kiss classic. He won't bs you and lie to you to sway you one way or the other. He'll be honest and give you the pros and cons of both. I suspect at the end of the conversation you'll be leaning towards the fathom, but I could be wrong. If he helps you out and then you choose the fathom, you can always show him your gratitude by taking mod1 with him. I see you're in Canada, so the one major pro to the Kiss is you can probably find an instructor up there. With the fathom you've got to go to Fl or Mx. But at the end of the day I still say the two units are in completely different leagues.
 
None of the mCCR's are CE approved that I'm aware of and it is highly unlikely they ever will be.

The rEvo´s are certified CE, even the mccr version.
 
I have been diving KISS Classic #154 since 2009. It has served me very well. I have had it on some fairly deep dives in the Great Lakes (275') and if something goes wrong you can fix it on the McMaster-Carr website. I really have zero regrets. I purchased it used, about the time there was talk of a $2000 CCR coming to market, and I'm really glad I just purchased my KISS Classic and went diving. About this same time several of my buddies bought MUCH more expensive rebreathers, and none of those units are supported now. I really like my KISS. All that said, I am sort of lusting for a Fathom.
 
Orifice clogging? I have about 14 years of using my Classic Kiss, about 60 dives per year and neither ever had any problem nor have heard of anyone having that issue. The MAV deals with oxygen, so both the tank and the gas are to be clean.

Three years ago I swapped the standard orifice for the smaller one sold by Tecme, and increased the IP of the DS4 oxygen side to 18-19 bars in order to use my Kiss deeper than 70 meters, and again not any problem whatsoever.
Orifices can and eventually will clog. The tiniest drop of water anywhere upstream will lead to corrosion, the brass orifice wants to corrode and turn green pretty badly. It only takes one tiny tiny salt crystal to cause a problem.

The Revo MAV is the worst as you can't get the actual orifice out of the block to clean it. Your smaller orifice is actually more likely to clog than the standard 0.035" one. Just because it hasn't happened to you yet does not mean it doesnt happen. This is one reason why needle valves are increasing popular, they are basically impossible to clog.
 
I believe officially as of right now. Or maybe in a couple of weeks. My wife took fundies a couple of months ago and it was one of Charlie’s last courses before his instructor “test” or whatever they call it when you have to impress Kirill

I believe he plans to teach beyond fundies but I’m not 100% sure
Fathom manufacturer and GUE-F instructor is an odd combo! Good for him but I can see where this is going lol
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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