Fatality on Rosalie Moller wreck

[johndiver999]

K had 70 bar -1000 psi when they started the ascent from around 100 feet. I assume there would be a good bit left on the safety stop.

 

[wgw04024]

Contrary to what so many Americans strongly believe, it’s not always somebody else’s fault if you get hurt or die. I don’t need that warning sticker on my car sun visor telling me I should wear a seatbelt or that sticker on the gas tank of my motorcycle telling me riding a motorcycle can be dangerous.

Completely agree with this.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I think you are making a lot more of something than what it really is - all we can do is rough guess at gas consumption with the info given but do some math - I figure she had a RMV of about .7, she used 120 bar in the first 17 minutes going to 30-34m. At 20m, she looses a weight and chases it down to 50m.

With all that, at 20m when she started the chase, she probably had 75-80 bar left and at her consumption rate, she had no more than 8 minutes of gas - adding some consumption in there for her stressed situation, I'd be suprised if she made it far off the bottom.

Sad to read this thread and the loss of life.

That is a diver who is really consuming air at a very fast rate. Here I am doing a 34m wreck dive, staying around 4 mins from NDL and ascending up a sea floor slope back to a reef where the bottom of the wall is around 15m depth. Even at 17 minutes into the dive I have 160 bar left and she has 80 bar. Even if I stayed a bit deeper and never got above 20m would not be much different.

A diver who has a high SAC rate should not try to retrieve dropped gear for sure.

On this dive below my total dive time was 93 mins and I finished the dive with 50 bar. AL 80 with 210 bar start. It is up to ourselves to understand should we be attempting a dive in the first place. Many times divers will do dives they should have considered not doing in the first place, myself included when I was in my first 2 years of diving. The fact they ascended and had enough air to get to a safety stop is fine but the action to chase a weight bag? Why not ask someone to get it on the next dive or the next day? We cannot know why that was done unfortunately.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I wouldn’t make a bounce dive to 150’ on a single full tank, much less than a nearly empty one. Just not worth it to recover a $25 weight pouch. One of my core philosophies is that you should never take anything into the water that you aren’t okay with losing.

I did a morning dive and on my second morning dive I went with a dive buddy who is a PADI instructor to retrieve a dropped camera and gear from a lass on the first morning dive. So in effect it was like a bounce dive... but planned, he waited at 40m while I went to retrieve the camera gear. We did a nice 70 minute dive and finished the dive with 50 bar as that is the dive centers policy. Either be at 5m safety stop with 50 bar or on the boat with 50 bar. A lot of the dive from 55 minutes was done at very shallow 5m - 7m depth doing a gentle off gassing.. For some people to assume a diver would just chase lost gear regardless is wrong. Many will not. This dive on an AL80 with 200 bar start 50 bar end. Would I do it for a cheap weight pouch? Maybe not. On a tank with 80 bar left in it? not on your nelly.

 

[hedonist222]

I am surprise a diver with 200 dives would chase a weight pouch while still in the NDL. She should have realized that A) she didn’t have the gas to make a bounce dive like that and B) she would not become overly buoyant until the very end of her ascent. Finally, the safety stop is *not* a hard requirement worth risking your life.

A regrettable instance, the issues with the computer, gas mix and her dive buddy seem secondary to her own discomfort and anxiety, which she may have been actively hiding from the others.

For me there is no mystery here. To make the decision to drop to 160' (for any reason other than one of your own children) after completely your dive, with at most 1/3 of an 80 cu ft tank left, is beyond comprehension.

That's why I personally think there is more circumstances we are unaware of.
What more or truly happened at twenty meters ?

 

[beester]

Sad to read this thread and the loss of life.

That is a diver who is really consuming air at a very fast rate. Here I am doing a 34m wreck dive, staying around 4 mins from NDL and ascending up a sea floor slope back to a reef where the bottom of the wall is around 15m depth. Even at 17 minutes into the dive I have 160 bar left and she has 80 bar. Even if I stayed a bit deeper and never got above 20m would not be much different.

A diver who has a high SAC rate should not try to retrieve dropped gear for sure.

On this dive below my total dive time was 93 mins and I finished the dive with 50 bar. AL 80 with 210 bar start. It is up to ourselves to understand should we be attempting a dive in the first place. Many times divers will do dives they should have considered not doing in the first place, myself included when I was in my first 2 years of diving. The fact they ascended and had enough air to get to a safety stop is fine but the action to chase a weight bag? Why not ask someone to get it on the next dive or the next day? We cannot know why that was done unfortunately.

View attachment 617498

You are thinking as a solo diver...

 

[Blackcrusader]

You are thinking as a solo diver...

Perhaps, but I am not trained as a solo diver just a recreational diver with BSAC Sports Diving DECO Air dives. My instructor always taught us to be self reliant though and not depend on a dive buddy to get us out of a difficult situation. I got hit by a weight on the head dropped from a diver above me. Lucky I did not get knocked out.

Perhaps the correct way to view it is that I am thinking of being a safe diver.

 

[beester]

Perhaps, but I am not trained as a solo diver just a recreational diver with BSAC Sports Diving DECO Air dives. My instructor always taught us to be self reliant though and not depend on a dive buddy to get us out of a difficult situation. I got hit by a weight on the head dropped from a diver above me. Lucky I did not get knocked out.

Perhaps the correct way to view it is that I am thinking of being a safe diver.

There is nothing inherently wrong with what you are saying. Just to keep in mind that when you are planning a dive... your (extraordinary low) sac rate is not so relevant as you may think. I've trained to divers starting technical diving. One had a very very low sac, the other on the higher side. The one with the low sac told me... I'm ok to take a low volume double set (D7L) instead of the bigger ones of my buddy (D12L).

The problem is if he needs to share his gas with his higher consumption buddy (specially in a stressful situation) his low volume set will never be sufficient. So to come back to your dive example... the fact that you have 160B left and your buddy 80B is not so relevant. The limiting factor is still her 80 bar (and higher consumption).

 

[Blackcrusader]

the fact that you have 160B left and your buddy 80B is not so relevant. The limiting factor is still her 80 bar (and higher consumption).

I was relating to the diver who perished and 80 bar and a dive I did with similar depth and time but I had 160 bar. Even then if I dropped a weight to 50m I would just let it go and forget about it. Why did the lass chase her weight? Did she feel some responsibility as it was dive shop gear? We shall never know and it's quite tragic she chased after something that was cheap and easily replaced.

When I do plan dives on gas it is always to the person with the highest sac rate never mine. My dive partners are just happy that if they had an issue they normally expect that I am the one who has more air remaining. Mainly on recreational vacation dives staying within NDL I am not doing gas planning as the divers are brought to shallow depths by the guide to allow the person with the least air to get as long as possible normally 50 mins to 60 mins.

 

[beldridg]

I was relating to the diver who perished and 80 bar and a dive I did with similar depth and time but I had 160 bar. Even then if I dropped a weight to 50m I would just let it go and forget about it. Why did the lass chase her weight? Did she feel some responsibility as it was dive shop gear? We shall never know and it's quite tragic she chased after something that was cheap and easily replaced.

Based on the description of the incident and her fear of not being able to hold a stop and hence over-weighting, I'm guessing that she thought she needed the ballast weight to avoid an uncontrolled ascent. Therefore, when it dropped, she went chasing after it fearing that she would rocket to the surface without it.

It wasn't necessarily due to the cost of the gear or the fact that it wasn't hers, but we'll never know for sure.

- brett