Fatality on Rosalie Moller wreck

[vjongene]

Yes, and many operators make a check dive and get people to weight check. As @KenGordon points out, most are just concerned with being underweight and not being able to get down, rather than being correctly weighted.

Yes, during the first dive, which was in a shallow and protected spot, we were all told to do a buoyancy check. Staff on the boat were standing by to take or give weights to those who needed it. I found that in a 3 mm suit I was slightly underweighted, but just fine (maybe 1 kg overweight) in my Speedo and rash guard. But the weighting decisions were left to the individual divers, and I guess that D. felt more comfortable carrying 10 kg. Btw, K. had to be prodded into adding a bit MORE weight to his belt, as he really did have a hard time doing his safety stops at first.

 

[Dan]

But aren't they taught how to do a simple buoyancy check? A few minutes spent before the diving starts and the issue is sorted for the rest of the trip.

Yes, it’s called “check out” dive. I’ve been to about 20 different liveaboards. Majority of them would conduct the checkout dive at the 1st dive of the trip in a safe site, like in a shallow bay or harbor with a decent visibility, A DM would go with a group of 3-4 divers with extra weights to be given away if needed.

He’ll watch you how fast you sink as you deflate the BCD and exhale. If it is too fast, then he’ll remove some of the leads out of your gear until just enough rate of descent.

In Galápagos, many of warm water divers are not familiar with diving in cold water. Some of them would be under estimate the lead needed to go down with 7mm wetsuit. RIB would go along with the group for additional help (e.g., RIB pilot to hand off or take out lead to divers if DM doesn’t have enough or not having the right lead to give away). That’s when I found out I need 16-lb lead with my 7mm wetsuit.

During Cenote diving in Tulum, Mexico, I found out I need only 8-lb lead to sink in fresh water with 3mm wetsuit.

Warm water diving like in Red Sea or Raja Ampat, I could use 10-lb lead. Since I like to distribute my dive weights in 4 places for balance (right & left waist & shoulder blade weight pouches), sometimes it is hard to find 1-lb lead to put on my shoulder blade pouch. I ended up using 12-lb lead (4-4-2-2 in right & left waist & shoulder-blade pouches, respectively).

 

[CT-Rich]

The majority of contributors (from behind their keyboards) have made the assumption this was a conscious decision. IMO it wasn't.

For example: you knock a glass off a table, it's pure instinct that your hand reaches out to grab it (or not. Only when it's sake or smashed on the floor does conscious thought take over.

For the sake of argument, You're near the end of your dive in similar circumstances, and your shiney new dsmb spool detaches and heads downward to the sand 100'/30m below you

Everyone on this thread will instinctively fin down to try to retrieve it. Assuming you don't catch it within a few ft/m

Most of us will out of habit/muscle memory look at our gauges - a handful of participant here will have the mental bandwidth and capacity to run the maths of depth vs tank contents and make a decision. The vast majority, won't do the maths, but experience will tell them that the numbers they're seeing, mean it's time to go up not down.

Some, , may get tunnel vision and be so fixated on the spool that rational and conscious thought is overridden by the desire to get that damn spool and they may end up with a similar conclusion

LIke all accidents it does require a chain of events beforehand to get to the final outcome (break any link in that chain and the outcome is different)

Training is about creating the discipline to realize when you are getting tunnel vision and reflexively looking at your gauges regularly and being able to do the mental math if you are thinking about deviating from the plan.

 

[Bob DBF]

This thread is quite preachy about overweighted divers.

I was not being preachy, I was sharing an anecdote. I made a suggestion to the diver, I didn't tell him he wrong to use that amount of weight, if he was interested in a weight discussion we could have talked, but he wasn't.

I started diving without a BC so weighting has always been important, however with a BC weighting is less, if even relevant, until one has so much weight the BC cannot overcome the negative buoyancy, or so little that one cannot hold a stop with an empty BC.

Weight is not buoyancy. There are reasons not to carry too much weight, but the ability to control your buoyancy is not one of them, except in the two cases I gave above. And before the talk of the air bubble change in the last 15', that is true,but that does not mean that one cannot learn to control their buoyancy in those conditions, seen it done.

I know what my perfect weighting is and I choose to carry a few extra pounds depending on the dive. I don't care what others use, but if asked I'll give my opinion.

 

[Bob DBF]

Training is about creating the discipline to realize when you are getting tunnel vision and reflexively looking at your gauges regularly and being able to do the mental math if you are thinking about deviating from the plan.

Back when I was a kid learning deco from an old timer, the best advise he gave me was to make my decisions, minimum gas, maximum time, maximum depth, and so on, on the surface and don't violate them, even if.... You can fill in the blank. One cannot count on making a good decision when under the effects of narcosis.

Personally, I wouldn't make a fast decent to 150' to get anything but a family member, or some of my regular buddies, and I would be scared witless that it would not go well. This is from someone that has spent a reasonable amount of time below that depth on air. Narcosis is not a myth, and a deep dive cert gives no guidance in how many ways Nitrox might affect one, how to assess one's condition, or strategies to to make it to the surface alive. A puzzle or color chart is not calculating if you have enough air in your tank to make a normal ascent after a decent below rec limits.

 

[Celt]

Everyone on this thread will instinctively fin down to try to retrieve it. Assuming you don't catch it within a few ft/m

Well you’re assumptions are wrong because it’s the very last thing I would do. Anyone used to working and diving in poor vis would never chase a dropped tool or gear as it could be a fatal mistake. If you drop something in poor vis with a mud or silt bottom it’s gone which is why all tools and gear are clipped on.

 

[Marie13]

I don’t know if I’d be going after ANYone down to 150ft on air. I get narced out of my gourd at 130ft. I can’t imagine it would be a good situation at 150ft.

 

[johndiver999]

I don’t know if I’d be going after ANYone down to 150ft on air. I get narced out of my gourd at 130ft. I can’t imagine it would be a good situation at 150ft.

Sprinting to 150 ft is much, much different than simply descending at a "normal" rate. Some people could be seriously impaired, winded and incapacitated by the exertion, Co2 and narcosis -the victim was 60 yrs old. She could have been in a world of hurt from that type of descent.

Some people could handle that kind of thing, but if that is what she did, is was very unwise.

Probably two of the most important techniques employed by "deep air" divers are to descend at a manageable rate and avoid exertion at depth.

 

[Ukmc]

You need to be able to hand off weights to do a proper buoyancy check. So you need to be prepared to remove them in the water or keep getting in and out. This is a load of hassle for a holiday diver.

How many people can judge how much lead to loose based on how easy it is to hold a stop and how much gas they have in a BCD?

Also, not being able to sink at the start is embarrassing and annoying.

The Egyptian liveaboards generally have small boats to drop off and pick up divers in waves. If you can’t sink you might be hanging about a time the surface until your boat comes back.

True, but doesn’t everybody keep their dive logs with how much weight they used with the type of gear/exposure protection they used on prior dives? By 100 dives one has a very good idea what they need in salt water vs fresh water with various suits gear. Certainly by 200 dives, you would think. And if the 201st dive is SO different either because of environment or gear from any prior dives, then spending 10 min figuring things out doesn’t seem to be a big deal.
There is something doesn’t quite make sense about this case. When I empty out to less than 700-500 psi, I already get a bit positive. You would think with half of the weights gone and near empty tank it would be easier to ascend even in OOA situation and get an extra breath or two from the tank or BC. Did she run out of air while still going down? Did she spit out a reg and inhaled water ? They found her next to the pouch that she dropped, which means she was very closed to it or had it back in her possession when she run out of air. I agree, that empty tank is a clue for OOA scenario.
She took diving classes, she dove a bunch, I think she knew what she was doing. I wonder if something catastrophic happened for her to disregard all the training and experience.

 

[wgw04024]

The assumption that anyone would do what she did, is laughable.