Fatality off of Point Lobos, California

[TSandM]

The bottom line is that, if someone is in serious physical difficulties 1000 feet offshore, you have a horrible situation that's unlikely to end well. The two resuscitations I've been involved with both began with someone in distress less than 50 feet offshore (in one case, MUCH less) and neither had a good outcome. I think a lot of people (myself probably included) aren't fit enough to tow someone even several hundred feet against rough seas or any current, and have anything left to get them out of the water and onto good ground where CPR can be done . . . and if you are alone, you still have the issue of summoning help.

Adobo is absolutely and totally correct that the best solution to a diving problem is not to have it in the first place. This accident appears to have been started by a gas management problem, which is something that is completely avoidable by good planning and careful dive execution. Arguing about what the buddy could or should have done at that point is a lot like what my surgical professor called "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic". Still, the points that emergency procedures are not well remembered very long after they are taught is a good one, and we might save a life or two by having students practice these things multiple times, and going back to them in their ConEd classes so there is interval reinforcement.

Teaching some gas management, and POUNDING gas checking and buddy behavior into them, is probably higher yield.

 

[Adobo]

And to Adobo, those other things are also taught in some OW classes in addition to the rescue skills. It;s all part of the package for a safe, competent, and skilled diver. When you break the package up you might make more money, but you may also contribute to someone not coming out of the water. At least breathing and on their feet.

I don't know why we are collectively so fixated on rescue skills with regards to this specific incident. Per another person's third hand account:

I've shortly talked to surviving buddy his word were "we were in 50ft of water, he (deceased) started going down out of air on a stop, i donated , we surfaced, i could not hold him up, it all went so fast" also he mentioned it was their 3rd or so dive together and that he (deceased) had about 15 dives.

Maybe the victim had gas planning, proper weighting and optional safety stops adequately covered in his open water class but based on the third hand account, it certainly doesn't seem like it. So we can can continue to lament the fact that skills like "surfacing unconscious divers" and "towing distressed divers to shore" are left out of open water but personally, I think those topics are largely missing the most obvious reasons that this dive team wound up in a bad situation in this specific dive.

 

[tye1138]

Jim, I completely agree with your comments. I share similar stories and have also taught youth scuba diving as well, by far my favorite teaching experience.

Its truly sad the industry has become such a money-grubbing, quick pleasure seeking one. Dive shop's and instructors unable or unwilling to exceed the standards.

I've sat in on many OW courses over my life being in the industry and when I've confronted instructors post course about things they left out, they always say "we're teaching the standards". This statement is the most infuriating and frustrating thing for an instructor to say. But I've heard it time and time again. I even remember a student bring up rescue stuff and the instructor saying, that course was offered next week for $275 or whatever.

Reading this thread, then reading the other thread about how easy it is for someone to become an instructor, its flabbergasting to me there aren't more incidents. It also shocks me there aren't more people who take teaching SCUBA diving seriously and teach a course which covers every aspect of basic diving including rescue.

Ya might have heard me say this once before... but no student of mine ever graduated the OW course without me being secure they were capable of saving the life of anyone else in the water with them. I played the "dummy" many times, eyes closed, lifeless and I could hear and feel everything they were doing, it feels good when they do it right.

---------- Post Merged at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:22 PM ----------

Adobo is absolutely and totally correct that the best solution to a diving problem is not to have it in the first place. This accident appears to have been started by a gas management problem, which is something that is completely avoidable by good planning and careful dive execution.

I agree, but it all comes back to training. Understanding how important it is to check your gauge and drill that into your students is critical. Relaying why its important to warm-up in between dives and not dive if your fatigued, those are other important factors. I mean these are things you're suppose to be taught, that most people just don't understand the importance of.

I remember one day having to actually perform a rescue of someone who was in distress and couldn't stay above water after their dive. I was wrapping up my 3rd dive, totally fatigued, but the moment I saw him at the surface freaking out, I dove in and swam over to him. Two other divers from another group swam over and I was the first one to get there. He was flailing his arms everywhere, still had his reg in his mouth, but didn't even attempt to inflate his BC. I dropped his weights, orally inflated his BC, which put him right onto his back and started pulling him back to shore (we were very close, a few yards). I never fully got an answer on why he freaked out, he seemed a lot better when we got him to shore and helped him onto the beach. Mind you, that incident happened way before I was a certified instructor... All of that to say, that happened way before I was an DM or instructor. But because I was properly trained, it was all second nature.

 

[Beanbag1]

It's somewhat shocking to hear that some dive orgs don't include rescue skills as an integral part of basic training. That suggests that anyone buddying with one of these divers is essentially doing a solo dive with the added complication of possibly needing to rescue someone who is highly likely to lose the plot if they get themselves into trouble.

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

Like being in permanent instructor mode. When on earth would you get to dive for fun if these people were always your buddies?

 

[3D diver]

So...have thing really changed that much over the years?

The certification courses I took in the late '70s & early '80s (yes, had to take 3, long story) all lasted a month or more, included oral inflation of (horse collar) BC's, had lots of ditch & don exercises, and included buddy tows, buddy pushes, and in-water resuscitation.

I'm guessing from this thread that isn't the case anymore?

 

[tye1138]

So...have thing really changed that much over the years?

The certification courses I took in the late '70s & early '80s (yes, had to take 3, long story) all lasted a month or more...

I'm guessing from this thread that isn't the case anymore?

HA! ROFL!!!

In Florida, they have two day courses. Where I'm from in New England, there were 2 and 1/2 day courses (friday evening, sat/sun) for complete certification!

Yea, the biggest problem is how "easy" it is to be certified today. You can show up at a resort and dive the next day. Really scary stuff!

My courses were month-long, 3 weekends + the friday evening before the first class for orientation. We taught full-day's, no 4 hours nonsense, it was a lot of training.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I am glad you all think size is not a problem. I am not sure I could save someone from depth and swim them into shore, while performing CPR, and somehow get a radio out and call the Coast Guard for help, and I have been rescue trained.

No one can perform CPR in the water ... so the first thing you need to do is set expectation about what you can and can't do and focus your efforts on the former. There's a changing mindset the past couple years over the efficacy of rescue breaths ... even those can do more harm than good if it delays getting the rescued diver to a hard surface where chest compressions can be performed. So the focus should be (a) get the diver to shore or boat with all due expediency, and (b) get them out of the water and apply whatever first-aid measures you are able to. Those are the priorities. In most situations ... particularly at someplace like Casino Point ... you won't have to radio the Coast Guard ... you'll have plenty of help available. Use it ... to get the person out of the water, to contact emergency services, and to apply whatever first aid is available.

It's going to be more the exception than the rule that you'll be diving in a place where there won't be anyone else available to help you. If you were rescue trained, then you should have been taught that managing an accident scenario is as much about utilizing others to help as it is about what you can personally do.

All that said, yes, of course it's better to learn proper skills and avoid the accident altogether. The sad fact is most diving accidents were completely avoidable if people only followed their training. That's why I hate to see discussions like this one devolve ... as they inevitably do ... into the shortcomings of training. If people only did what they were taught to do, most times we wouldn't be having this conversation. But humans ... being human ... have a tendency to push their limits and make mistakes. And sometimes that leads to a bad outcome ... which is why rescue training is a good idea in the first place.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Adobo]

All that said, yes, of course it's better to learn proper skills and avoid the accident altogether. The sad fact is most diving accidents were completely avoidable if people only followed their training. That's why I hate to see discussions like this one devolve ... as they inevitably do ... into the shortcomings of training. If people only did what they were taught to do, most times we wouldn't be having this conversation. But humans ... being human ... have a tendency to push their limits and make mistakes. And sometimes that leads to a bad outcome ... which is why rescue training is a good idea in the first place.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree that even with the basic training I was provided in my open water class, if the victim and his buddy followed that training, things would likely have had a very different ending. However, if we focus on the gas planning portion of the typical open water class (or at least what I got from my class), we can see that what is taught does not promote good dive planning or good dive plan execution.

Specifically, I was told, be back at the boat with 500psi. When asked as to how I can work my way backwards so I can hit that number, no details were provided.

If we look at this incident, according to the third hand account, the victim and his buddy ended their dive in ~50ft of water. At Pt. Lobos, this would mean that they were well outside of Whaler's Cove. In all of the dives I've done in Pt. Lobos, my dives have ended at the worm patch which is in 20ish feet of water. Personally, I am left with the impression that this team did not know what their minimum gas was for this dive and didn't even really know what their turn pressure should have been so as to not wind up surfacing outside of the protection of Whaler's Cove.

So again, I agree that following the basic training provided in Open Water would have left this team in a very different situation but realistically, I would say that the "back on the boat with 500psi" approach to gas planning leave many divers pretty much clueless as to how to actually execute the dive in manner where there are gas related milestones that the diver tracks as part of the dive. And I know that you have authored a document that details out how to prepare a comprehensive gas plan for a recreational dive. I imagine you had to take it upon yourself to do that because you saw a need for improvement in the standard gas planning approach taught by the majority of open water classes.

Heck, I bet if people were to answer a poll honestly, I suspect a good number of the people who posted on this thread don't know how to do rock bottom/min gas calculation or know what it means when you say "halves of usable gas". Including, sadly, some instructors.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Heck, I bet if people were to answer a poll honestly, I suspect a good number of the people who posted on this thread don't know how to do rock bottom/min gas calculation or know what it means when you say "halves of usable gas". Including, sadly, some instructors.

My experience of giving gas management seminars over the past eight years would indicate that instructors are more likely than Open Water students to ask "why would I need to know that?"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tye1138]

My experience of giving gas management seminars over the past eight years would indicate that instructors are more likely than Open Water students to ask "why would I need to know that?"

ROFL!!! Agreed!

I was gonna say something earlier about that, but you beat me to it.

Then again, when I dive recreationally, I know how much gas I need and pay attention to my gauge.