Fatality Off Miami Beach - Florida

[danvolker]

Dan, as I understood it Kevin said he saw her dogpaddling to the buoy, (not back to the ladder of the boat). Kevin, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

If a couple of the other posters that have past/previous one on one experience with Ari are credible, then Ari . . . is not credible.

---------- Post added February 26th, 2013 at 06:36 PM ----------

And if 4-5 people saw her get back on the boat, then she fell off the back of the boat. Again, this would explain why her gear was off. She didn't get her weight belt off before she fell into the water.

Long one of my concerns to see people casually stading/wandering about the boat with their weightbelts on, when not planning to immediately gear up.

This is one where I really believe the Police are going to have to sort this out from all the first hand accounts, decide what is corroborated, what is conflicting, and then what most likely happened....I know I can't sort this out from my vantage point.

 

[diverrex]

This one sure is a mystery.

 

[chillyinCanada]

True enough Dan, true enough.

We can however, discuss how to attempt to avoid similar situations in the future . . . and of course, remind people not to wear their weights on the boat when they aren't in the process of gearing up.

 

[AndyMcGhee]

^From the accounts given, it sounds like the diver was part of a group just tagging along with Ari's class. Ari took one buddy and assumed the other was not coming. I cannot verify any of this information and it was all taken from her statements. While she may be a terrible instructor, I don't think the blame rests squarely on her shoulders because she was not hired as an instructor for this girl (as far as she has said in her statements). I think if she would have communicated with this diver, this tragedy could have easily been avoided. The same goes for her buddy. I'm sure the language barrier had something to do with that. It was a freak accident, but I do support taking action and reporting this instructor.

Although the many accusations being made cannot yet be verified as fact (which hopefully the proper authorities can sort out), I would like to clarify that just because the instructor in question was not hired by the victim, this instructor (and any instructor for that matter) can be held liable for negligence in a situation such as this. Since professional and insured scuba instructors carry a higher burden of not causing unreasonable risk, if some of these accusations are found to be factual, the instructor in question could have caused unreasonable risk to this diver. This indeed would go along with the second statement in the qouted post that proper communication would be a key step in avoiding unreasonable risk (language barriers do not impede safe diving). As it stands, it seems like the "facts" brought forth have come from credible sources so this could be a major issue for the instructor mentioned and not the boat company or it's crew; who by all accounts acted to the best of their abilities as any prudent person would.

It is a sad day to lose any diver, and my heartfelt thoughts go out to the victim and her family.

 

[diverrex]

Where was her BC found?

 

[Quero]

kgallowaypa, thank you for your heroic efforts to resuscitate the victim. It's a real shame that events unfolded as they did, but perhaps we can learn some hard lessons from the incident.

I do have a couple of questions, though, related to these comments you made earlier:

I think the dive masters should of been checking everyone's cards especially if there was suspicion beforehand that a coupe other guys noticed on the boat that i later found out.

When I was gearing up for the dive I recall the divemaster asking someone for their C-cards but as we were preparing to be underway the was the last time I heard that.

What suspicion beforehand did a couple of guys have that you later found out about? Is there some question as to whether the victim was a certified diver?

 

[Ayisha]

...think about it, if there was air in her bc at depth then she had achieved neutral buoyancy. getting to the surface would not have been an issue.

That is not necessarily true. If a diver is wearing more weight than their BC can lift, that diver could still be on the bottom with a fully inflated BC. It would probably take some propulsion/kicking to get off the bottom, not inadequate lift alone. Once the upward momentum has started and the air in the BC begins to expand, it would rise quickly. Just because there is air in the BC does not necessarily mean that she was neutrally buoyant.

 

[ForScubaPurposesOnly]

---------- Post added February 26th, 2013 at 06:36 PM ----------

And if 4-5 people saw her get back on the boat, then she fell off the back of the boat. Again, this would explain why her gear was off. She didn't get her weight belt off before she fell into the water.

Long one of my concerns to see people casually standing/wandering about the boat with their weightbelts on, when not planning to immediately gear up.

Chilly, the setup of the boat would not have permitted her just to fall off. She would have to be standing on railings or something ridiculous like that to just fall off and the DM would have noticed this unusual behavior.

 

[danvolker]

Chilly, the setup of the boat would not have permitted her just to fall off. She would have to be standing on railings or something ridiculous like that to just fall off and the DM would have noticed this unusual behavior.

I don't see how any of us here should be trying to "put this" on Ari. The information that has been posted so far does not indicate this, and SPECULATING that a death was caused by Ari will likely cause problems for her with PADI....Just exactly as any of us SPECULATING that somehow the boat did something wrong, could end their business--something I don't want on me, and I doubt most of the others here want either....If we actually KNEW something we could speculate and not care about the consequences--but we don't. One of the other people on the boat told dj that the Chinese girl( who died) had gone back to the ladder, and was just holding on to it, and adjusting gear for a while.....during which time Ari and her group descended and left the area.
Maybe this is true, maybe it is conflicting with another account. The police will be the ones to determine this.
I know NOTHING about this boat, so IF I had made any suggestion before that put blame on them, I would apologize-- If I learn what happened a week from now, and think either the boat or Ari is to blame, then I will play the blame game, THEN. Not now.
Similarly, disparaging Ari for being a Nudibranch hunter is not relevant to the accident. I would also say that if ANY instructor is doing a Refresher course DIVE on a charter boat with a student, and some divers say to the student that they want to follow ( I believe this is what the surviving girl did--just tell the student that they would likely follow--they had to follow someone) , and one of this "following buddy team" ends up staying on the ladder of the dive boat while the group descends and begins it's dive, then this diver on the ladder, is not in the group--she elected OUT if it. If this storyline is true, then suggesting anything negligent about Ari, is Defamation and more important, not morally sound behavior.

If someone wants to start another thread and discuss Nudibranch hunting and collecting, I think we can all agree this is an entirely separate matter from this thread, and has no place in assignment of blame or accident analysis for what is at hand.

 

[catone]

That is not necessarily true. If a diver is wearing more weight than their BC can lift, that diver could still be on the bottom with a fully inflated BC. It would probably take some propulsion/kicking to get off the bottom, not inadequate lift alone. Once the upward momentum has started and the air in the BC begins to expand, it would rise quickly. Just because there is air in the BC does not necessarily mean that she was neutrally buoyant.

She would have to swim all the way to the surface if she's not neutrally buoyant with a full BC at depth. There will be no more expansion coming up as the BC is full already and the expanding air would escape through the OPV. The only extra buoyancy she would get would be from expanding exposure suit (wetsuit or drysuit).