Fatality Off Miami Beach - Florida

[boulderjohn]

That's really the only part that I can see as potentially negligent, if the card wasn't checked. On page 4 there's some discussion about cards being checked or not on that particular trip, so I guess it's possible that hers wasn't checked. But maybe it was.

I don't think I have ever had a card checked on the boat. That has always been taken care of when I signed up for and paid for the dive itself. If someone asked me for my card while I was on the boat, I would usually not be able to produce it. I rarely bring it with me on the actual dive.

 

[danvolker]

I have not been to a ton of places to dive but I did find the diving in the Keys to be by far the most hands off diving I have ever seen.

In Key West we took a 6-pack boat that was highly recommended on this board. We went to the Vandenburg where the Capt/DM/guide, whatever you want to call him...hopped right in the water leaving nobody on the boat. I was shocked.

I did not splash. I just did not feel that it was safe to leave the boat unattended like that in any seas...never mind that it was somewhat of a heavy swell with a strong current.

I was the only person to skip that dive. It was an easy decision. I look to take care of myself. If someone else wants to take more risks then I do...go right ahead. We all have different levels of risk taking that we are comfortable with.

I don't think any here will support a charter boat, or a private boat, anchoring, with all crew and passengers leaving the boat for an advanced dive.....I think many would not suggest this as viable even on a shallow water site --it makes any kind of emergency much worse and harder to respond to.

 

[diverrex]

I don't think I have ever had a card checked on the boat. That has always been taken care of when I signed up for and paid for the dive itself. If someone asked me for my card while I was on the boat, I would usually not be able to produce it. I rarely bring it with me on the actual dive.

This is one of those things that is location specific. In SoCal our boats don't have shops. You either telephone or sign up online, but the first time they see you is on the boat so that's where you show them the card. I've also done it that way once on a small charter in Key Largo and once in Coz when our plane arrived after the shop closed and the first time they saw us was when the boat picked us up at the dock. The main point being to have clear communication between dive/op and customer to know what is required.

 

[tridacna]

That is not the point and your post seems rather pointless aside from chest beating.

The point is...one needs to know their limits. If you are new to diving or rusty and you can't recognize that fact for yourself then well, go Darwin.

I am not chest beating. If you think that diving in South Florida to be "the most hands off diving" you have ever seen, you obviously have not been diving in enough places. I've dived in NJ, LI, Southern Cal, Seattle and NC - just to name a few. Those are way more challenging than SF. Outside of guided tours in the Caribbean where you have your hand held and your tanks changed for you, Florida does not rate as tough in any way. Anyone making an assertion or implication that the toughness of Florida diving contributed to this accident is delusional. She died on one of the easiest dive sites in the US. (And Darwinism doesn't work like that either).

 

[Scott from LongIsland]

I am not chest beating. If you think that diving in South Florida to be "the most hands off diving" you have ever seen, you obviously have not been diving in enough places. I've dived in NJ, LI, Southern Cal, Seattle and NC - just to name a few. Those are way more challenging than SF. Outside of guided tours in the Caribbean where you have your hand held and your tanks changed for you, Florida does not rate as tough in any way. Anyone making an assertion or implication that the toughness of Florida diving contributed to this accident is delusional. She died on one of the easiest dive sites in the US. (And Darwinism doesn't work like that either).

Okay, clearly you did not read what i wrote. I prefaced my statement with "i have not been diving in a ton of places". I never called Florida diving "tough" nor did i imply that. I simply said it was hands off as i have witnessed. No did I say it had anything to do with this woman's death whatsover. Wow.

To say that someone someone has not been diving to enough places is so lame. I am not competing with anyone for places that i have been diving. I don't need you to list where you have dove, nor do I care.

I said know your limits. If that happens to mean that diving in 20 feet of clear water is too much for you then sobeit. Just recognize that fact. It is not too difficult. "Tough" diving is relative. And yes, that is where Darwinism comes into effect. When someone doesn't know their limits and passes them, then accidents happen.

 

[brnt999]

"This is one of those things that is location specific. "

I was thinking, if a new diver learned how to dive at a resort in Mexico where the DM controlled everything and basically babysat the divers, and then the new diver went home to Florida and signed up for a dive expecting the same thing, this diver could be in a situation over their head.

 

[danvolker]

I am not chest beating. If you think that diving in South Florida to be "the most hands off diving" you have ever seen, you obviously have not been diving in enough places. I've dived in NJ, LI, Southern Cal, Seattle and NC - just to name a few. Those are way more challenging than SF. Outside of guided tours in the Caribbean where you have your hand held and your tanks changed for you, Florida does not rate as tough in any way. Anyone making an assertion or implication that the toughness of Florida diving contributed to this accident is delusional. She died on one of the easiest dive sites in the US. (And Darwinism doesn't work like that either).

This is true.... Palm Beach diving is easy...and the Keys are much easier than Palm Beach for the "rank novice", and those not really ready to be out of a swimming pool yet..
Florida ocean dives do not approach the harshness of what you are describing, until you get as far north as Fort Pierce, where you may need to be 20 miles from shore, good vis is 15 feet, and the current is so strong that both divers need to hang on to the float line at 200 feet deep, or one gets dragged away from the other....But the fish are bigger, much bigger, and the sharks are more pervasive, and the ecosystem is more primitive/healthier. This is a harhsness that would probably kill half the divers that visit the Keys each year...

 

[diverrex]

"This is one of those things that is location specific. "

I was thinking, if a new diver learned how to dive at a resort in Mexico where the DM controlled everything and basically babysat the divers, and then the new diver went home to Florida and signed up for a dive expecting the same thing, this diver could be in a situation over their head.

Everything is relative. I would not be surprised to find out that this woman had only done guided dives in very easy conditions. Sometimes it doesn't take a big thing to create panic but can be a combination of stressors that all add up. She didn't know English , I would find that stressful.
Maybe she expected it to be a guided dive, maybe she was intimidated by the large number of divers onboard, maybe she thought they would be closer to land, the water colder than what she was used to, etc etc. I doubt we will ever know what happened or why.

 

[brnt999]

Everything is relative. I would not be surprised to find out that this woman had only done guided dives in very easy conditions. Sometimes it doesn't take a big thing to create panic but can be a combination of stressors that all add up. She didn't know English , I would find that stressful.
Maybe she expected it to be a guided dive, maybe she was intimidated by the large number of divers onboard, maybe she thought they would be closer to land, the water colder than what she was used to, etc etc. I doubt we will ever know what happened or why.

The industry could do something to ensure someone else doesn't make the same mistake. They could educate new divers.

 

[letterboy]

divers are supposed to b e educated, what is happening is that instructors are being lazy and not ensuring the student is proficient in all the required skills.

until said instructors stop being lazy stupid divers who should not be certified will continue to be stupid and die.