Fatality Cabo San Lucas March 3

[koozemani]

IF what was said about that dive shop is true and they are somewhat suspended in any way with PADI that does NOT mean it was specifically due to the bad air. Also, repeating over and over again about if this or if that does nothing without facts. It is obvious that bad air is involved but what kind of bad air is the question still unanswered. As was mentioned earlier, it sounds like it was NOT 100% CO to blame. Legal action has been taken and maybe we will get more definitive answers soon.

Best wsopfan post to date.

 

[AggieDiver]

It is a good post except for the part about expecting to get more definitive info soon due to the legal action. In my experience, all the legal action will guarantee is that the search for truth will get dragged out for many years and either be swamped by the amount of back and forth legal wrangling such that the truth can't be sorted from the piles of fiction; or in the case of an out of court settlement, the agreement will include a requirement that neither side discuss the case and we will be left to guess. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[Ayisha]

...I have been accused on this thread of blaming someone (twice) for something that was never addressed to that person.

Yes it was, as can be seen below. If you follow someone's name with your accusation, it can be reasonably understood that you are addressing that person. As I stated, I never asked the dive shop to do anything or commented on what the dive shop should or shouldn't do. I have no interest in the dive shop whatsoever.

...They are caught up, wrong or right, in a very serious matter, so if you comment was meant to be an indictment for them not posting here to defend themselves, it is misguided at best.

Ayisha...My response to you was more about posts asking for the dive shop to come onto SB to defend themselves. Again I think that is a ridiculous request based on the times we live in, and any legal counsel would probably advise against it.

...In this case I do have actual experience that I shared. Sunshine has stated that they were not involved and I have asked and have been told they indeed have a inline CO testing system.

Having an inline CO monitor is only part of the solution. The shop that had the fatality last fall HAD an inline CO monitoring system. I have stated this on another thread previously, but here it is again:

An inline CO monitor is subject to error. Without:
*the CO monitor being plugged in/connected
*anyone close enough to hear the alarm and shut it off
*an automatic shutoff

the CO monitor may not do it's job.

Even with an inline CO monitor with an automatic shutoff and all protocols in place, some people would still prefer to verify themselves that there is no/minute CO in their tanks.

---------- Post added at 08:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------

...There has been a lot of different versions of this story, and there was one article that quoted one of the family as saying they received a text about the fills, but again there was a lot of ambiguity around that...

It was stated in the media that Colin Cross, Ronda's husband, received a text message from Ronda's cousin, who was present on the fateful dive, stating the source of the airfills. There's nothing ambiguous about that and that has never really been discussed on this board - until you brought it up a couple of times recently.

 

[DandyDon]

Having an inline CO monitor is only part of the solution. The shop that had the fatality last fall HAD an inline CO monitoring system. I have stated this on another thread previously, but here it is again:

An inline CO monitor is subject to error. Without:
*the CO monitor being plugged in/connected
*anyone close enough to hear the alarm and shut it off
*an automatic shutoff

the CO monitor may not do it's job.

Even with an inline CO monitor with an automatic shutoff and all protocols in place, some people would still prefer to verify themselves that there is no/minute CO in their tanks.

It was stated in the media that Colin Cross, Ronda's husband, received a text message from Ronda's cousin, who was present on the fateful dive, stating the source of the airfills. There's nothing ambiguous about that and that has never really been discussed on this board - until you brought it up a couple of times recently.

True, plus I am such a cynic that I doubt that they have inline CO monitors. They might, but I doubt it. It took a lot to get the first ones installed on Cozumel, I know, then they failed as mentioned.

On the other hand, Ronda's cousin may have been told the source of the fills, but divers often don't know for sure - and she may not?

 

[KC_Mike]

Just for clarification, I did mean that I wish we could all make diving so safe, and accidents so rare in the sport of diving, that an A&I forum would not have very much use, not that they weren't currently needed in the real world or that I want to close the forum or even thread.

Ayisha, None of my posts were ever meant toward you and I am sorry if you feel that they were.

I don't disagree that this could have been a bad air/co/other equipment malfunction. However as I have learned through PADI, most common diver incidents and emergencies can often be traced back to poor judgement (even if you consider that to be the decision to not to test air, dive at a specific location, etc). If the ability is there and you choose not to use it, I think that it then becomes a personal responsibility (and thanks to Don we know tools for testing air can even be rented).

 

[Ayisha]

I don't disagree that this could have been a bad air/co/other equipment malfunction. However as I have learned through PADI, most common diver incidents and emergencies can often be traced back to poor judgement (even if you consider that to be the decision to not to test air, dive at a specific location, etc). If the ability is there and you choose not to use it, I think that it then becomes a personal responsibility (and thanks to Don we know tools for testing air can even be rented).

Nope, personal analyzers for CO are NOT the norm. Only a fraction of one percent of divers probably have one. Expecting clean dry air that sustains life is expected.

That responsibility argument sounds like a dive shop set-up against a lawsuit: They didn't use a portable CO analyzer to test their air, even though it can now be rented, so they're responsible for their death/sickness. If everyone is expected to have/rent one and it is part of their documented training, you could reasonably expect them to be used. At this point, nope, not common at all.

 

[WSOPFAN]

Gas Detection for Scuba Diving Safety

Most people buying a gas detector are looking to use it on the job in a potentially hazardous worksite. But increasingly, we are seeing our units adapted to uses outside the industrial sector.On March 3rd this year, Ronda Cross was scuba diving in Mexico. She had over 200 dives to her credit, and a strong safety record, but died in the water that day. The only realistic explanation is that her air supply became contaminated with carbon monoxide.
In direct response to this tragedy, many divers have been looking for a way to test their tanks before submerging. Two of our gas detectors, the BW GasAlertExtreme and the BW MicroClip have both been bought in the past 2 weeks by divers looking for a little peace of mind before jumping in.
The gentleman using the GasAlertExtreme planned to keep the unit in a plastic bag, then fill the bag with air from his tank. Any concentration of carbon monoxide would appear on the LCD display.
The MicroClip takes things to the next level, allowing this particular diver to monitor the Oxygen levels in his tank, as well as test for dangerous gases. Using the test cap included with the unit, he is able to siphon from a separate tube and check the tank directly.
They are not submersible, but these products are IP66/67 waterproof, so they’ll be able to function fine seaside.
While they were not designed specifically with divers in mind, the gas detectors from BW allow you to dive with confidence.
Bob Rossierof Divers Alert Network wrote: “While breathing gas contamination is considered rare in recreational diving, it does happen. Even trace amounts of contamination can lead to incapacitation, unconsciousness or even death.”
A CTV report on the incident in Mexico read:
“When there’s a tainted tank there can be a lot of problems but you wouldn’t even taste it,” Cross said, adding that the couple had dived in the Great Barrier Reef, the Bahamas, Cozumel and many other locations.
“We heard form the police and we heard from the dive master…who was leading the dive that even he was sick after the dive along with Roxanne, so the only thing it could be is contaminated tanks.”
Mexican police have now launched an investigation into the dive shop that provided Cross with her equipment, the family said.

 

[koozemani]

Wow the Microclip is interesting in that you have the option to purchase other sensors allowing it to test for other gasses. Here's you o2 and CO sensor in one. $360 for CO $435 for both, and $595 for all four sensors. This is well worth considering.

Edit: Scratch off the o2 sensor. It is only designed to measure up to 30% o2. Oh well...

 

[AggieDiver]

That is a good point about all of these detectors not originally designed to test breathing gas. Most of them are geared towards testing minute amounts of a specific gas or in the case of oxygen to test within a specific range. So be aware of the limitations of the equipment before you start adapting it for your use.

 

[Jake 12116]

As well as CO and other contaminates what if she got a EAN blend in her tank and Did not know about it? some of the problems the divers felt were like what you might see before CNS convulsions.