gianaameri
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Seems like you had a good instructor.
Fatality at Jersey Island
- Thread starter DandyDon
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Seems like you had a good instructor.
gianaameri -
I think you should consider acceptance of the idea that in a society where free-will is prevalent, individuals will persue passions which when reviewed could be perceived as attempted with reckless abandon. You have to be willing to allow Jill to accept the elements of responsibility she owns per the standards of our society and in this case the rebreather diving community. I understand you can't seem to accept Jill had a role in this tragic accident, but she did. She got out of bed, put on her pants, and a rebreather. Like many in this thread, I choose to believe Jill was aware of the risks presented by this methodology of diving as evidenced by attending a proper class. She had an obligation to herself, her friends, and her family to assure the machine was properly configured as a life-support apparatus commisurate with the activity and configuration specified by the manufacturer's design.
We all seem to agree the manufacturer provided a product easily capable of supporting her life for this dive. She appears to have failed her obligation to herself in several ways and let's not trivialize the fact she paid the price for it. While I believe the manufacturers do have an obligation to produce a reasonably safe product, nothing about the product in this case malfunctioned, or failed to work as designed even when hobbled by it's user. I think once you've made modifications to the unit be them intentional or not, the product is simply a collection of parts you've sourced from the tool shed (akin to your Franken-Meg).
We have to allow divers to be responsible for the dive, and consider that manufacturers are providing pathways to our little explorations. As has been stated Hollis has an opportunity to offer a safety notice, and Hollis has exactly the same opportunity as every other manufacturer. They have the opportunity to continuously improve and better the design of the products offered. To my knowledge, no one from Hollis has made any statement about unwillingness to make design changes.
If you want to dive without the diver assuming some risk or responsibility, I suggest you fluff the pillows on your couch and I'll send you some video links from my future dives. I believe the P2 to be a safe and economical machine to dive, it is my go-to machine and I have plenty of other gear including a backup rebreather from which to choose.
I think you should consider acceptance of the idea that in a society where free-will is prevalent, individuals will persue passions which when reviewed could be perceived as attempted with reckless abandon. You have to be willing to allow Jill to accept the elements of responsibility she owns per the standards of our society and in this case the rebreather diving community. I understand you can't seem to accept Jill had a role in this tragic accident, but she did. She got out of bed, put on her pants, and a rebreather. Like many in this thread, I choose to believe Jill was aware of the risks presented by this methodology of diving as evidenced by attending a proper class. She had an obligation to herself, her friends, and her family to assure the machine was properly configured as a life-support apparatus commisurate with the activity and configuration specified by the manufacturer's design.
We all seem to agree the manufacturer provided a product easily capable of supporting her life for this dive. She appears to have failed her obligation to herself in several ways and let's not trivialize the fact she paid the price for it. While I believe the manufacturers do have an obligation to produce a reasonably safe product, nothing about the product in this case malfunctioned, or failed to work as designed even when hobbled by it's user. I think once you've made modifications to the unit be them intentional or not, the product is simply a collection of parts you've sourced from the tool shed (akin to your Franken-Meg).
We have to allow divers to be responsible for the dive, and consider that manufacturers are providing pathways to our little explorations. As has been stated Hollis has an opportunity to offer a safety notice, and Hollis has exactly the same opportunity as every other manufacturer. They have the opportunity to continuously improve and better the design of the products offered. To my knowledge, no one from Hollis has made any statement about unwillingness to make design changes.
If you want to dive without the diver assuming some risk or responsibility, I suggest you fluff the pillows on your couch and I'll send you some video links from my future dives. I believe the P2 to be a safe and economical machine to dive, it is my go-to machine and I have plenty of other gear including a backup rebreather from which to choose.
gianaameri
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More appropriate question is which Notified Body has issued the initial EN14143 Certificate for the Hollis Prism 2 Rebreather and where is it?
Douglas Ward
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Again can the opinion of an untrained coroner negate industry specialist certification?
gianaameri
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HSL issued the opinion. Not the Coroner.
I think this is HSL: http://www.hsl.gov.uk/ .
[h=1]About Us[/h][h=4]The Health and Safety Laboratory (HSL) is one of the world's leading providers of health and safety solutions to industry, government and professional bodies.[/h]The main focus of our work is on understanding and reducing health and safety risks. We offer health and safety research, expert advice and consultancy, specialist training and products.
At HSL, we have been developing health and safety solutions for over 100 years. Our long history means that we're well-placed to understand the changing health and safety landscape, and anticipate future issues.
We are an independent agency of the Health and Safety Executive (HSE), and working with the regulator gives us a unique insight into workplace health and safety.
HSL employs over 350 scientific, medical and technical specialists, who help make working environments and working lives safer, in the UK and around the world.
We have a strong international reputation for high-quality research, undertaken on behalf of the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) and other sponsors in government and industry.
To find out how we can help you, contact us.
Douglas Ward
Contributor
On page 2 of the Prism2 manual it say SGS UK Ltd Notified Body 0120
Gianaameri have you read the manual?
Ok that's great. It looks like and occupation workplace safety. Can the HSL negate the CE certification with an opinion?
You state that is was found to be non compliant.
Gianaameri have you read the manual?
Ok that's great. It looks like and occupation workplace safety. Can the HSL negate the CE certification with an opinion?
You state that is was found to be non compliant.
gianaameri
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- The rebreather did not comply with clause 5.1 of BS EN 14143: 2013 or BS EN 14143: 2003, which states: “It shall not be possible to assemble or combine the components or parts in such a way that it can affect the safe operation and safe use of the apparatus, e.g. by incorrect connection of the hoses to the breathing circuit.”
---------- Post added December 3rd, 2014 at 05:35 PM ----------
No.
I only looked at the checklist and assembly and DSV related sections.
I could not think of anything more boring than reading the HP2 manual.
---------- Post added December 3rd, 2014 at 05:38 PM ----------
Omisson is the practising lawyer and former elected official (and has contacted the Coroner).
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According to the Hollis Explorer manual:
The Prism has a very similar statement, without the CE mark:
So to me it appears that Hollis has had this unit tested to the EU standard.
SeaRat
Douglas Ward
Contributor
thanks searat I could copy from my phone.
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