Fatality at Jersey Island

[gobfish1]

Not a single member of a ‘P’ Party was lost in action although AB William Brunskill died of wounds after a German V-2 rocket hit the Cinema Rex in Antwerp where he was watching a film on 16 Dec 1944. All this was despite having cleared the ports of Cherbourg, Caen, Dieppe, Le Havre, Boulogne, Rouen, Calais, Antwerp, Ostend, Terneuzen, Zeebrugge, Flushing, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hamburg, and Bremen. Sixty mines were cleared at Bremen alone.

Think what ever you like, But this lot used ppo2s that would have you ***** your pants ,
Using kit that did not have the best WOB ,

 

[gianaameri]

Not a single member of a ‘P’ Party was lost in action although AB William Brunskill died of wounds after a German V-2 rocket hit the Cinema Rex in Antwerp where he was watching a film on 16 Dec 1944. All this was despite having cleared the ports of Cherbourg, Caen, Dieppe, Le Havre, Boulogne, Rouen, Calais, Antwerp, Ostend, Terneuzen, Zeebrugge, Flushing, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hamburg, and Bremen. Sixty mines were cleared at Bremen alone.

Think what ever you like, But this lot used ppo2s that would have you ***** your pants ,
Using kit that did not have the best WOB ,

That is a load of B.S. military propaganda.

The military lied through their noses during WWII and anybody who was present at incidents and seriously bad f-ups was threatened with Court Martial if they went public.

Please... let us stick to science and peer reviewed scientific publications when we discuss this incident, pPO2, and CO2...

 

[tripntx]

This lady died because she failed to follow the check list. Hollis doesn’t need to say anything or change anything because the information to prevent this death is contained within the checklist.

The coroner’s opinion is wrong. If she assembled this unit then either she committed suicide or didn’t follow the checklist for some other reason such as being influenced by someone out to cause her harm. If someone else assembled this unit, and that person is a P2 diver as well and correctly assembled/dove a P2 at the same time, then the act was premeditated murder.

The O2 manual inject is on inside left of the right exhale CL. How the hell was it overlooked when it showed up on the outside of the left CL?
The DIL ADV inject is on the left collar of the left CL. How was it overlooked when it showed up on the right CL?
The collar nuts install flush. How was it overlooked when it showed up with a gap and exposed threads?
The loop would not pass stereo check!
So many steps were overlooked and discarded in the checklist that investigators and coroner should be looking for someone who committed an act of premediated murder or this must be ruled a suicide.

People always trying to blame a manufacture for failure instead of taking responsibility for their own actions (or in this case inaction to follow standard & accepted practice of using checklist) is sickening. Using a checklist is a requirement when assembling a RB. I spent the first 20 years of my adult life repairing aircraft for the USAF; using a checklist when installing/assembling equipment/components and when performing an operation checkout is a way of life. Using the checklist is what prevents equipment damage and prevents bodily harm as well as loss of life.

I would love to see a CO2 monitor for RB which is accurate, precise, and reliable. I’m an analytical technician at a Hydrocarbons unit inside a large chemical company. My days at work are spent maintaining, troubleshooting, operating, inspecting, repairing, validating and calibrating online process analytical equipment such as gas chromatographs, IR’s, UV’s, frequency crystal, zirconium, and laser analyzers. If the analyzer isn’t accurate & precise as well as reliable then it will not be suitable for our purposes inside a RB loop.

BTW, I’m a P2 diver, have completed both Mod 1 & Mod 2. I dive my P2 with a BOV connected to bailout bottle, and with a Drager strap firmly holding the BOV in place.

 

[Garth]

So your mushroom valves are in the BOV?

I don't think anyone is "blaming" hollis but rather pointing out that having mushroom valves oriented in the hoses could potentially be a less optimal design given the possibility to assemble incorrectly.
I realize your upset about this but regardless the pieces fit together. Yes it didn't hold a negative but is there a reason why they fit together in the first place?
Machining and injection molding is getting really precise and can eliminate this problem with design.

No blame necessary, just an open mind focused on improvement.


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[Hickdive]

Not a single member of a ‘P’ Party was lost in action although AB William Brunskill died of wounds after a German V-2 rocket hit the Cinema Rex in Antwerp where he was watching a film on 16 Dec 1944. All this was despite having cleared the ports of Cherbourg, Caen, Dieppe, Le Havre, Boulogne, Rouen, Calais, Antwerp, Ostend, Terneuzen, Zeebrugge, Flushing, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hamburg, and Bremen. Sixty mines were cleared at Bremen alone.

Think what ever you like, But this lot used ppo2s that would have you ***** your pants ,
Using kit that did not have the best WOB ,

This is perfectly correct, the RN "P Parties" operating in Europe from June 1944 through to the German surrender lost no divers during diving operations. There is a very good book on their activities published in the early 1950s called "Open the Ports", I have a copy in the attic somewhere, along with the companion work "The Frogmen".

Both books extensively describe the experimental work done by Haldane on oxygen rebreathers and toxicity at the Siebe Gorman factory and the testing of volunteers. Legend has it that above the entrance to one of the test chambers there was a chalked warning along the lines of "Down at the Depth of 99 feet lives a devil by the name of 'Oxygen Pete'". That gives you some idea of the now unheard of depths people were using pure 02 to. It was during these experiments that what we now know as nitrox was developed by cutting oxygen with air to increase operational depth limits whilst still staying well away from mandatory decompression stops.

Far from being propaganda these experiments and experiences formed he basis of much of what we know today and the basis of Donald's work "Oxygen and the Diver" an excerpt of which can be read here:

http://www.frogkick.nl/files/oxygen_and_the_diver.pdf

 

[tripntx]

So your mushroom valves are in the BOV?

No blame necessary, just an open mind focused on improvement.


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Yes, the mushrooms are in my BOV, which I dislike because it isn’t as easy to clean the inhale one as it was when I was using the DSV. With that said, it’s not a big deal, I simply preferred the mushroom on inhale hose instead of on BOV. I dove it with a DSV for the first 20+ hrs, then switched to Hollis BOV before taking MOD 2. My BOV is plumbed to off-board bailout gas.

I agree most on here are not pointing blame at Hollis, except for one person who sounds like a broken record continuously restating the coroner’s opinion. He has reposted that same message so many times that I simply ignore it as much as possible.

 

[tstormdiver]

So your mushroom valves are in the BOV?

I don't think anyone is "blaming" hollis but rather pointing out that having mushroom valves oriented in the hoses could potentially be a less optimal design given the possibility to assemble incorrectly.
I realize your upset about this but regardless the pieces fit together. Yes it didn't hold a negative but is there a reason why they fit together in the first place?
Machining and injection molding is getting really precise and can eliminate this problem with design.

No blame necessary, just an open mind focused on improvement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On the BOV, the mushroom valves are within the BOV. With the SDV, one mushroom valve is within the hose (inhale side) & the other is within the DSV (Exhale side). I just recently went from a SDV to a BOV that is plumbed to my bailout. I had to swap out the internal inserts of the hoses that goes to the mouth piece.

 

[victorzamora]

I don't think anyone is "blaming" Hollis

Actually, if you look back (please don't)....there are, in fact, people directly blaming Hollis for this.

 

[Garth]

Actually, if you look back (please don't)....there are, in fact, people directly blaming Hollis for this.

Oops. I looked and you're right. Maybe the majority aren't blaming hollis? I know I don't blame hollis at all. I do however want to believe that manufacturers do re-evaluate their products for possible safety concerns.

Interesting discussion intermingled into this thread and that shouldn't be lost.

Mushroom valves are important.


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[descent]

... I do however want to believe that manufacturers do re-evaluate their products for possible safety concerns.

Hollis did quickly come out with an inexpensive and reliable engineering change to prevent the stock DSV from being attached to a reversed loop. I assume the sort-of-reversible counterlungs will be bowing out soon, as well.

If Hollis had to integrate and test every modification that a paranoid engineer could think of before they could ship a Prism 2, no one would be diving a Prism 2 yet.

At some point, you just have to shoot the engineers and ship the thing.