Fatality at Jersey Island

[Garth]

The only possible answer is she did not build it.

Who the heck built it? The husband? Jesus. This is a story for sure. Is anyone investigating this?


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[HIGHwing]

Well we know for sure who the heck dove it. Tell me you weren't surprised when you saw what happened...

 

[Garth]

The only possible answer is she did not build it. You can breathe from it - no problem. You just made a balloon. The valves facing each other essentially create a rubber stopper in the loop. You have access to the gas in the loop, bucket and CL but in a linear fashion.

I still don't understand how that's possible. If the mushroom valves are facing each other there is either no way to breath in or no way to breathe out.

Are the mushroom valves in DSV or the hoses?


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---------- Post added December 3rd, 2014 at 08:12 PM ----------

What I'm trying to say is that you could breath in with valves facing each other but when you go to breath out the check valves would stop you in both directions.

Could be reversed too.


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[HIGHwing]

One in the DSV, one in the hose. Picture the CLs as balloons on a hose. The only blocked airspace is between the two valves. Let's call it one inch of air is blocked.

Go look at the pictures again and forget your CCR training, it's failing you right now. You have to go a little out of the box to visualize it.

 

[Garth]

Welcome to the thread.

Why the hell would Hollis put two mushroom valves on one side. I will be thinking of this for days...


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[HIGHwing]

Why the hell would Hollis put two mushroom valves on one side. I will be thinking of this for days...


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They didn't. This was a massive assembly error by the user. Please go look at my picture/video post. What happened is so odd most of us thought it was not possible. I then tested the theory of the assembly in this thread last night and proved it is possible.

---------- Post added December 3rd, 2014 at 08:21 PM ----------

Study post #212 closely.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Never have I been so glad to have a revo loop as when I saw how this actually happened. Sure, it's long, hard to rinse out, and if you have a stereo check issue it's a PITA to get at the mushrooms...but at least my mushrooms are both in the DSV.

But I don't see the P2 as having a design error: you have to really work to get both mushrooms on one side in a loop that is kinda sorta screwed together, and then to not realize it you have to skip the only check that confirms you're actually breathing off a one-way loop.

 

[gobfish1]

What? If you breath out it goes somewhere in a counterlung and then into a scrubber. If the mushroom valves were both installed in same direction the air was going through the scrubber.

What you are suggesting is that one or both mushroom valves were not installed at all. Do you have that knowledge?

I dive a rebreather and understand the gas flow of a standard rebreather. Breathing in and out of a balloon suggests that either the mushroom valves were not installed, or the scrubber wasn't installed... Otherwise the scrubber is in play. If both mashroom valves are oriented in opposite directions you either can't breath in or you cant breathe out.

If an o ring was omitted fine then yes the scrubber may be bypassed but if the direction of flow is switched there is no reason why the scrubber wouldn't work...

Garth



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---------- Post added December 3rd, 2014 at 07:48 PM ----------



Did you not read my BOv comment. Are you denying that people have actually bailout out and survived a CO2 hit?

It's possible although not ideal to have a CO2 hit at all obviously.

A lot of these comments seem like they are coming from people who don't dive rebreathers... Just sayin.

Garth


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---------- Post added December 3rd, 2014 at 07:53 PM ----------



You have a lot of Rebreathers listed in your profile but do you actually dive Rebreathers frequently or are you teaching often?

I'm not convinced this was a primary CO2 hit as opposed to a flooded rebreather event with building CO2.

Everyone has an opinion. No one has to like mine...

Breathing in a balloon... Not good for your health...


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Seen a diver do his pre breath (5mins) then jump off the boat, all was well , 1min later he stopped dead in the water , (red sea )
only thing that saved him was the orher divers, and a old dive buddy of mine had the v same thing . dives just stopped dead in the water , my old buddy saved the day that time ,

ybod , he had forgot to put in the scrubber O-RING ,
He never know what hit him ,

also if you only have half the loop and your just sucking and blowing, No dwell time its not moving through the scrubber just bouncing of it , / licking the wall,s

 

[Garth]

Glad you got it, because I was about to post saying "read the whole F'ing thread", because it sure looks like you hadn't.....

:-D oops. I had been reading this off and on. It's a long thread!!

I've asked the folks over on CCR explorers what they thought about the P2 design and if they could see this as a potential to reoccur.

I'm interested to hear how this plays out over the next few months..


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---------- Post added December 3rd, 2014 at 09:55 PM ----------

It seems like they could work to get both check valves in the DSV.


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[tcpip95]

3 minutes into the dive and their was something fundamentally wrong with that scrubber or assembly (like missing O-rings). Breakthrough or bypass that rapid should have been detected on pre-breath even.

---------- Post added November 27th, 2014 at 01:17 PM ----------


All the checklists I have seen are stupid long with superfluous lawyer written stuff in like there like "fill O2" and "check for damage"

This creates lengthy checklists which then get ignored or not used. To avoid this I made my own. No its not manufacturer approved but making the checklist actually useable and legible is key to actually using it every time, which is how you stay alive. Manufacturers need to learn 1) how to design out potential assembly/diver errors - e.g all Orings should be contrasting colors so you can immediately see if they are missing or cut. 2) how to write briefly and concisely.

Just last year weren't you lamenting how your scooter couldn't be trimmed in freshwater? Having an un-trimmable scooter released for consumers is an indication of the thoughtfulness of those engineers and honestly I think its an enormous oversight. I wouldn't be surprised if some CCRs have the same types of issues, for instance I have heard that one CCR has 1 absolutely critical oring and a dog hair in it can lead to CO2 bypass. That's the kind of single point failure that needs to be designed out or at least made very difficult to create.

I have never used a rebreather - and have no intention or desire to do so. I don't know the first thing about them. However, having been in the USAF using equipment that could kill me (jet airplanes, high voltages, etc.) I have learned to respect a checklist - no matter what the length of it is.

Did you ever notice something about a checklist? The first word of every step is a verb..... "SET, FILL, PLACE, ENSURE, CHECK,...." The checklist is developed in a nice, safe, controlled environment. All the thinking is done ahead of time, so that the END USER doesn't have to think. All they have to do is follow the steps in the checklist. How about the word "checklist"? CHECK LIST. Check each step off on the list as you go through them. It ensures that things are done in a a safe, organized order.

When you're doing something that could cause you serious bodily harm or death - FOLLOW THE CHECKLIST. ALWAYS. If the checklist could be shortened - SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE DONE IT IN THAT NICE, SAFE, CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT.

Be safe.