Fatal Record attempt in Garda Lake Italy

[dmaziuk]

I bet that depends on what's on the label. If it says the pacemaker is good to 7 atmospheres (about 200 feet) on the label then I suspect they're going to have to go through clinical trials before it's approved for sale. Don't all medical devices/medicines have to be tested on humans before they're approved?

I suspect it does not have to be tested in humans pressurized to 7 bar, though, to put "tested to 7 bar" on the label.

 

[BlueTrin]

I suspect it does not have to be tested in humans pressurized to 7 bar, though, to put "tested to 7 bar" on the label.

Could be done in a chamber if you just say ‘tested to 7 bar’ I guess

 

[boulderjohn]

Most brands refuse to support this kind of ego driven glory grabbing because it's a given that the result will end in death. Who needs that negative publicity? NEDU has already been below 1000 ft on open circuit already. THEY have almost unlimited resources to pull this kind of thing off. One of our users has done it, though he is not allowed to admit it publicly.

In the case of the record failed record attempt that included a fatality that I mentioned earlier, it is my understanding (I could be wrong) that the scooters used were supplied by the company with the idea that they would be named when the record setting dive was announced. Whether they had planned to do so before the dive or not, they have not publicized their role after that fatality,

 

[tomfcrist]

Whether they had planned to do so before the dive or not, they have not publicized their role after that fatality,

Well that makes sense. Successful dive = Our gear is awesome.

Saying “this guy died using our gear” is probably not the best advertisement...

 

[kelemvor]

I suspect it does not have to be tested in humans pressurized to 7 bar, though, to put "tested to 7 bar" on the label.

I'm curious about that. There's several doctors on scubaboard. If medical equipment says something like that, does the FDA require it to be actually tested by humans and verified?

 

[infieldg]

...He arrived in the Garda Lake campsite with the objective to dive to 333 meters and so beat the Egyptian record (I believe the news refer to Ahmed Gabr Ahmed Gabr - Wikipedia) holding the record at 332. If this is true, the record was set in OC and apparently this is what it was diving.

Or he was trying to break the CCR record, not sure how current this is but it fits, with the current record being set in Egypt by his famous compatriot Krzysztow Starnawski (EDIT - my bad, was beaten in 2014 by a Brit in Gili, Indonesia - RECORD BREAKING DIVES - DIVE Magazine

On 3 December 2011 Krzysztow Starnawski broke David Shaw's record in deep diving with a rebreather. The record-breaking dive to 283 m (928 ft) took place in Dahab, Egypt.

 

[doctormike]

I'm curious about that. There's several doctors on scubaboard. If medical equipment says something like that, does the FDA require it to be actually tested by humans and verified?

I don't know the answer to that - my practice is very earwax oriented and I don't have a lot of fancy toys. But the important thing to realize about any testing is that it only makes sense to do it if you are trying to sell a specific product for use in a specific environment. It's certainly possible to see if a pacemaker will function at 100 degrees celsius, but that's clinically irrelevant. It's also possible to determine if a dive computer will function in the Marianas trench, but who cares if it does?

To say that at some point you need to do human testing on a product used by humans only makes sense in conditions that it might reasonably be used. Are there a few people who need scooters that work at 300 meters? I guess, but they are probably only the people diving to 300 meters to see if their scooter works there.

I'm with those who don't understand the point of these record setting dives, apart from bragging rights. I don't see how they push back the frontiers of usable knowledge. But these are mentally competent adults who can make their own decisions - the implications of the risks they take are between them and their family members.

 

[uwxplorer]

Isn't the whole idea to test protocols and equipment before deep cave exploration, at least for one of the divers mentioned?
Sorry to hear about the fatality, though. Maybe there are goals that are better fulfilled by autonomous drones....

 

[doctormike]

Isn't the whole idea to test protocols and equipment before deep cave exploration, at least for one of the divers mentioned?
Sorry to hear about the fatality, though. Maybe there are goals that are better fulfilled by autonomous drones....

Yup. Even NASA seems to realize that for the costs of keeping a human pilot alive for extended spaceflight, you could do 100 times as many missions with unmanned probes. Sure, there is the "cool" factor of sending a human being to the moon and back, and that was an incredible accomplishment. But as the goals get further and further away (in space or in caves), I think that you pass the point of diminishing returns.

We need to have people try diving at 300 meters in a lake so that they can dive to 300 meters in a cave? So why do they need to dive to 300 meters in a cave? Is it so that they can push back the boundaries of our knowledge of very deep caves? But does that logic ever end? Maybe there are 600 meter deep caves - do we need to send people there as well, just because they exist?

 

[Banan]

Or he was trying to break the CCR record, not sure how current this is but it fits, with the current record being set in Egypt by his famous compatriot Krzysztow Starnawski (EDIT - my bad, was beaten in 2014 by a Brit in Gili, Indonesia - RECORD BREAKING DIVES - DIVE Magazine

You are right, it would have been a record CCR dive. However you will notice in this thread that the records you mention have very recently been broken (Starnawski 303m, Macedonski 316m; the latter just a few days before the fatal dive and it seems like, though don't quote me on that, the deceased might have been part of the support team for the 316m dive).

My condolences to you and all who knew him.

Much appreciated. I didn't know him personally, but he was known and valued (at least locally) for his exploration work. The info I posted is not first hand to be clear, but as some relevant sources were non-English language and unlikely to reach SB, I thought I would share.
Also thanks for clarifying the solo vs supported point; I see what you meant and totally agree. There is no mention of in-water support at this point. Thank you for the book recommendation.

Isn't the whole idea to test protocols and equipment before deep cave exploration, at least for one of the divers mentioned?
Sorry to hear about the fatality, though. Maybe there are goals that are better fulfilled by autonomous drones....

Indeed. You probably mean Starnawski and it seems like records have always been a by-product rather than a focus for him as they never got anywhere near the publicity of his actual goal - cave exploration. You make a good point about drones and even those guys would probably agree with you; they already use them in some expeditions.