far fetched idea with the ferry coming

[MauiScubaSteve]

current interpretations of State regulations necessitate a guide in the water.

Do you mean for deep dives, or boat dives in general? I've not heard of these regs -- do you have a reference?

I was refering to how the dive ops are interpreting this State reg we have already parsed words over.

From this old thread; http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=186616&page=4

It is true. 29CFR1910 or code of federal regulations that was adopted by the state of Hawaii. Required boat to be manned with divers in the water and certified dive master standing by for safety with divers in the water. It also falls under IMO under SOLAS or safety of life at sea so even if you are in international waters they can still enforce it. Talk to some Coast Guard buddies and they confirmed.
This is for business's if you are diving on your own you are on your own or with friends and you just need a dive flag.

Not to mention the additional crew to watch bubbles on drift dives. There is a loophole on bubble watcher for 6 or less guests, but I heard someone recently might have been sited for violating the bubble watcher reg on a backside drift.

 

[KrisB]

"certified dive master standing by for safety with divers in the water"

I'll have to revisit the thread -- but that particular line doesn't mean "standing by in the water" to me -- it means that a DM is supervising activities.

 

[Charlie99]

Not to mention the additional crew to watch bubbles on drift dives.

My understanding is that the requirement for a mate/spotter onboard in addition to the Captain when doing a drift dive of 6 or more is a local interpretation of rules by the Coast Guard. Supposedly it's not explicitly in any rules, but nonetheless it's a Coast Guard requirement in Maui waters.

I was told it was a result of the Maui Diamond II incident where they had 8 divers go for a 5 hour drift dive a few years ago.

All hearsay, but I've gotten the same story from two different dive ops.

 

[DiveWestOahu]

it may get dave L back from guam but will it get richard back from china is the real ?
8)

 

[KrisB]

It is true. 29CFR1910 or code of federal regulations that was adopted by the state of Hawaii. Required boat to be manned with divers in the water and certified dive master standing by for safety with divers in the water. It also falls under IMO under SOLAS or safety of life at sea so even if you are in international waters they can still enforce it. Talk to some Coast Guard buddies and they confirmed.

29CFR1910 is the OSHA requirements -- and only applies when you have employed divers in the water.

This does not mean you can't let divers jump off a commercial vessel and guide themselves -- it means there are specific worker safety measures that must be taken if you're paying someone to guide them.

Incidentally, a great deal of those items aren't followed -- check it out:
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owastand.display_standard_group?p_toc_level=1&p_part_number=1910

Scroll down to "Subpart T" where they identify Diving Operations.

Also -- for the record, I couldn't find anything about "divemaster" -- there are requirements for a "standby diver"... but nothing about dive professional.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

"certified dive master standing by for safety with divers in the water"

I'll have to revisit the thread -- but that particular line doesn't mean "standing by in the water" to me -- it means that a DM is supervising activities.

What that line means to you was never an issue AFAIR. Name a commercial dive boat in Hawaii that does not put a guide in the water with their divers and that is the operation that believs a DM can supervise divers from the surface.

My understanding is that the requirement for a mate/spotter onboard in addition to the Captain when doing a drift dive of 6 or more is a local interpretation of rules by the Coast Guard. Supposedly it's not explicitly in any rules, but nonetheless it's a Coast Guard requirement in Maui waters.

I was told it was a result of the Maui Diamond II incident where they had 8 divers go for a 5 hour drift dive a few years ago.

All hearsay, but I've gotten the same story from two different dive ops.

I believe operators have to apply for permission to conduct drift dives for up to 6 guests without the additional bubble watcher.

I heard from un-impeachable sources that one of the Molokini captains complained of being approached/cited for no bubble watcher last week, although he later denied the incident (and the conversation).

 

[KrisB]

I believe operators have to apply for permission to conduct drift dives for up to 6 guests without the additional bubble watcher.

It was explained to me that 6-pax aren't considered "inspected" vessels, so the rules are a little different (including the designated spotter).

What that line means to you was never an issue AFAIR.

You're right -- so I never bothered to look it up, or care too much about it at the time.

As I noted in my previous post, 29CFR1910 is actually OSHA requirements -- only applicable when there are "workers" in the water... so, if you're only a boat-for-hire, there's no applicable requirements found there. I suppose it would be "reasonable and prudent" for a dive boat operator to have another dive professional standing by when there are guests in the water, though...

 

[Cacia]

I believe operators have to apply for permission to conduct drift dives for up to 6 guests without the additional bubble watcher.

yes...Alex of AAA diving applied for and got an exclusion. I don't pretend to be clear on it, but I did see the memo at a HRSA meeting. Operators present asked no questions, almost like they wanted to think through the implications... four years ago or so.

It does make sense from a practical point of view to have a spotter as the captain sometimes has his hands full on rough water pick-ups, especialy near the walls. I'd like to see them require SMB's if anything.

 

[Charlie99]

yes...Alex of AAA diving applied for and got an exclusion. I don't pretend to be clear on it, but I did see the memo at a HRSA meeting. Operators present asked no questions, almost like they wanted to think through the implications... four years ago or so.

That fits with it being a local rule in response to the Maui Diamond II incident. They lost the dive group for several hours in February 2003. The Captain was the only crewmember onboard while divers were in the water.

Some of these "requirements" are written down. They are either interpretations of the rules by the local Coast Guard group, or maybe even just local practices that become the de-facto standard even though they aren't really legally required. Kind of like how there is no legal or regulatory requirement to check certification cards of divers, but that has become standard practice in most regions.

Charlie Allen

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

As I noted in my previous post, 29CFR1910 is actually OSHA requirements -- only applicable when there are "workers" in the water... so, if you're only a boat-for-hire, there's no applicable requirements found there. I suppose it would be "reasonable and prudent" for a dive boat operator to have another dive professional standing by when there are guests in the water, though...

Attempting to post and prepare breakfast at the same time caused me to miss your osha post until now. If you will re-read Subpart T - Commercial Diving Operations, you might come to a similar conclusion to me that these regulations apply to commercial divers, aka hard hat divers. I linked us to an old wild goose chase and thanks to Kris we can now try to find the regulations for Recreational Diving Operators.