Faking Logbook Entries Fact or Fiction?

[SadiesMom]

Look, I'm not trying to belabor the point here. But that is EXACTLY the issue.

There comes a time where fraud and/or perjury seems to be a lesser problem, and can even seem to be a way out, to a defendant facing pending liability issues. Those are the times when documentation tends to get faked. Truckers, safety studies, etc. once again its not a problem exclusive to the scuba industry but the scuba industry isn't immune to it, either.

SM, I'm sure your scruples are impeccable. But I play enough golf to know that its also the people you least expect who can be the biggest cheaters. Color me skeptical when it comes to the overall honesty of the human race. :frown:

I understand your point. However, as a dive professional, working with students, I do feel that it's my responsibility to keep my dive log current and accurate in the event of an incident. Color me overzealous. Color me naive. Color me a newbie DM (which would be pretty much accurate). Color me overly scrupulous in my recordkeeping.

But even if I didn't log my dives for my own personal reasons, I'd keep do it for those reasons. You're welcome to be skeptical about anyone's honesty you want - but I know the level of mine.

 

[SadiesMom]

After doing some diving in South Africa, an instructor who was signing my log book for the dive that I had just completed also offered to stamp and sign the next few blank pages "to get me started!". He said that everyone did it and it would help me get the number of dives needed to start my DM etc. I declined the offer.

Sheesh!!! Good for you, Andrea!!! And no, "everyone" does *not* do it.

I have to say that I'm appalled - is this more prevalent that I know??? Am I living in some kind of isolated place where people actually *keep* logbooks and *don't* lie and fake them????? 'Cause not for nothing, but I know a lot of divers and I've never heard of *anyone* doing this before and most of the divers I know somehow log their dives (whether it be by keeping track of them on databases on their computers or in a logbook).....

 

[daniel f aleman]

The point is that if one uses a log book as a document to validate experience, one can in libility issuses, be faced with it in court as supporting evidence (I'm talking DM or higher here mostly). Log book entries can be considered notes, like those from a police officer, detective, lawyer, doctor, or minutes from a commitee meeting, etc.

 

[ghostdiver1957]

After doing some diving in South Africa, an instructor who was signing my log book for the dive that I had just completed also offered to stamp and sign the next few blank pages "to get me started!". He said that everyone did it and it would help me get the number of dives needed to start my DM etc. I declined the offer.

That's because you're hot and he was hitting on you... Beware of DM's!

 

[StSomewhere]

I understand your point. However, as a dive professional, working with students, I do feel that it's my responsibility to keep my dive log current and accurate in the event of an incident. Color me overzealous. Color me naive. Color me a newbie DM (which would be pretty much accurate). Color me overly scrupulous in my recordkeeping.

But even if I didn't log my dives for my own personal reasons, I'd keep do it for those reasons. You're welcome to be skeptical about anyone's honesty you want - but I know the level of mine.

Please don't misunderstand me. I salute you. I just wish there were more like you.

 

[grazie42]

I was actually a bit surprised how interested my instructor was in my logbook(s) when I started tech-training (IANTD). I figured I had more than the required number of dives so I was ok but it seems the "student folder" wants to know how many of those dives were wreckdives, dives below x ft and all sorts of things...I was really glad I´d bothered to log my dives then and since I´ve had a renewed interest in logging dives.

I also know someone who did a whole bunch of those 15min @ x ft that PADI requires to call a dive a dive in order to get DM-training and later instructor-courses...people who´ve dived with this person say it shows...to me that kind of behaviour is a red flag and I prefer to dive with other people...

 

[MikeFerrara]

ok I got my copy of the magazine and just finished reading the artical.

It doesn't say what agency the classes were but it says a 5 day program covering ädvanced Nitrox", "Decompression diving" (is that decompression procedures?) and "extended range" certifications.

It sounds like it may be TDI but IANTD doesn't have courses with similar name to that. I'm not sure about TDI but IANTD doesn't have any class that permits diving to 180 ft on air and none that permit diving in an overhead unless the student is already certified in overheads.

A 5 day program for all this...well just use a gun on all your students why don't you? I've taught advanced nitrox classes that lasted weeks because it was so much work getting students through the shallow water skills and used to doubles.

The artical says the student experienced deep water blackout. I suppose anything is possible but I've never heard of it at that shallow depth (the artical says between 150 and 160).

The artical also says that technical programs are designed to slowly expand depth limitations to detect which students are susceptable to narcosis and deep water blackout Oh really? I think the science says that we are all susceptable to narcosis and just how the HELL do you know who is susceptable to deepwater blackout without taking them down there and knocking them out? Can any one present even a little science to support this totally obsurd and radale like statement?!!!!

The students logbook isn't the issue here as far as I can tell but I would love to see the instructors logbook. The student may have faked a logbook but there is Oh so very much more going on here, IMO.The fact that Mike Ange is the author tells me alot about the attitudes behind how the artical is written...Mr. deep air and tech diver bootcamp himself...yippeeee you can go from AOW to trimix in 1 week!

 

[Lead_carrier]

I've had people ask me to sign their logbooks for dives they didn't do. Like I'm gonna do that and put my butt on the line for them?

I also know for a fact that a lot of cards are faked for levels of certifications they divers don't have. Yes, I've seen them and been offered some. Thanks but no thanks. I can get myself in enough trouble without faking it.

 

[scubajoh44]

For log books to be "official" don't you have to have your buddy sign them and have your buddy's c-card # on them?????

Who would help someone fake a log book?

 

[MikeFerrara]

I've had people ask me to sign their logbooks for dives they didn't do. Like I'm gonna do that and put my butt on the line for them?

I also know for a fact that a lot of cards are faked for levels of certifications they divers don't have. Yes, I've seen them and been offered some. Thanks but no thanks. I can get myself in enough trouble without faking it.

I don't usually sign logbooks unless it's a student and in that case I must. I never ask any one to sign mine unless I'm taking a class and it's the instructor.

When teaching, my log serves as a memory jogger so I know what was done and who was there. Sure I have student file folders spanning years but they are in alphebetical order and finding out who was on what dive years after the fact could in itself take years of going through files. Even if you issue a class number, it still doesn't work because so often a student misses a day or does extra dives or whatever and ends up diving with more than one class. My log puts it in order by date.

Other than teaching, my log is strictly to keep track on information that I may need again some day and I don't need any one else to sign it for that.

If a resort or charter isn't satisfied with the way my log reads they are more than welcome to just observe me in the water. I won't pay extra for that but I'm willing to do the dive.

Anyway, there you have it, my log book is for me, at least the parts of it that I'd be able to find.